FixHealthCarePolicy

I definitely don't want the government gaining any more power than they already have (which I believe is too much already). I can not believe that President Obama is pushing this so hard. He has no background in the medical field. I will definitely be cancelling my membership from AARP. I thought they were an advocacy group for seniors, but obviously they have a political agenda.

I can't believe that you can't believe Obama is pushing this so hard. All during his campaign for president he told us all what his plans were and so many groups exposed him for the Marxist, racist, anti-America, anti-freedom, anti-capitalism fake he truly is.

Also, I'm sorry you didn't learn sooner that AARP is merely another left-wing organization that exists to extract money from seniors to advance the policies of the Democratic Party. At least you won't be supporting them any longer.

What? What about BC/BS or Humana or any other private health care provider! They have been lining the pockets of your conservative slacks for years! You need to speak with someone that knows what is happening in washington. the only reason that this bill may not get passed is because of the conservative lobbyist groups in washington that don't want to see everyone taken care of! wake up

good!! transfer your membership over to me!! When all of the smoke and mirror games that the republicans are playing are done come stand in line next to me when one of the greatest health care plans is passed.

bzylady;
I propose doing one of three things-or all three----
1st: Impeach-Impeach-Impeach!
2nd: Every state become a sovereign state. (having independent authority)The states that are moving toward becoming sovereign have been told there would be no more federal funding. The way the obamamaniacs are spending all that the states will be denied is the taxation to pay for the expenditures! The States can support theirselves without the help of the socialistic agenda of the Powers in Play!

3rd: Follow the Money Trail and Stop It...Ask yourself, who provides funding for the operation of the government and how is it paid!

hahaha!!!! the money trail!! the money trail will lead right back to the republicans!! You need to open your eyes you retard

DOES NO ONE KNOW THE HISTORY OF EUROPE DURING 1930s AND 40s HOW 'HITLER' WOO'ED THE MASSES WITH HIS PROMISES? IF THERE IS ENOUGH TIME LEFT BEFORE THIS "USURPER" TOTALLY DESTROYS THIS COUNTRY, BETTER 'TRY'TO FIND SOME HISTORY OF THAT TIME AND UNDERSTAND THE SIMILARTIES OF THEN AND NOW, AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE IGNORANCE OF THEN AND TODAY.

Another "Smoke and Mirrors" left-wing tactic. Obama is an extremist assaulting the institutions of this country with the so-called "healthcare crisis", being just the beginning. Our Senators and Congressmen are a bunch of power addicts, who cannot say no to the left-wing leaders. We need to get these idiots out of office and bring sanity in the form of strong-character conservatives to stop the extremists from destroying our Republic. God Help America, if we don't...

You make about as much sense as a door knob. Destroying your Republic? What did George Bush do for the last eight years? All of you like to cast stones but it is you that voted for the last president that got us into the mess we are in today!! When Bill Clinton was in office the we had a surplus of goods. The GDP was more than a percent higher than it was in 2004 and 2007. Our foreign relations were good with almost every industrialized country.

The people you speak of are not the liberals. They are the Hannitys and the O'Reillys of the world. you need to wake up and smell the napalm my friend!!!!

Skip...Skip:



George Bush is just another part of the ongoing smoke screen...as was his father.  He is no hero in my eyes, either.  But because, you libs have no credibility, nor any facts to stand on when it comes to solving the healthcare debacle, you play the classic "fall back and blame Bush" game.  Don't make me laugh.  You seam to forget that it was the Republican takeover of Congress in 1994, under Newt Gingrich, that forced President Bill Clinton to back off the socilialistic agenda and let the free market take us out of the economic duldrums and ride the economic boom into a second term.



Bill Clinton was wise to shutup and smell the napalm.  Now we have Barack Hussein Obama and his Chicago gang of "community organizers" usurping constitutional authority, piling on trillions of dollars of more debt, and I am to believe that he is going to solve all of our problems?  Healthcare aside, the so-called stimulus was a real winner, oh yeh.  Cash for clunkers??  Wall Street bailout???  Cap n' Trade??.  All real winners in my book(Yeh Right!!).



Perhaps you can explain the math?  Perhaps you can explain where all the jobs are!!  Oh and where is all the stimulus money??



I recommend you go back about 100 years and look into the Progressive Movement.  I'll put my "doorknob" sense up against your senseless Bush bashing any time.   


Regards,

The Stedge

I am sorry it is hard to hear anything you are saying because i just got back from a town hall meeting where there are 100 scared republicans that were trying to yell over eachother. One thing you forgot to mention is that the only tactic that the conservatives have are scare tactics. They prey on the unintelligent americans that do not take the time to read through any bills or to do any research on anything associated with politics.

Cmon do you really want to associate yourself with Newt Gingrich? He is a thief, He makes Halliburton look like a charitible foundation. With Newts shady book deals and his inablility to balance his check book!! I know you can do better than that. You are one DNA strand away from clubbing your mate in a book store and dragging her back to your cave.

You can quit sticking your foot in your mouth too because bill clinton was one of the best presidents that the U.S. has ever had. I do not even have to parlay his track record to you!

Where is all the stimulus money? Go to any small town with a unemployment rate of over 7%. You will see the jobs that are created for these people. It might be for only a couple of years but it may be enough to get these people back on their feet. It is hard for me to not fall back on George Bush and his administration because both of his terms were so comical! I do not care if you associate yourself with him or not but you have to agree that the U.S. suffered those 8 years and now we are paying for it!

Skip:



There is no point in carrying this discourse any further as you are entrenched in your blind faith of the new Messiah!!  Government run anything never works, never has worked, and never will work.  Add on top of that the latest deficit projections show just how much you are being misled down the rosy path of economic destruction.  As for Bill Clinton.  He spent way too much time getting his rocks off with Monica, traded top secret nuclear and other technical data to the Chi-Coms for re-election funding, Had his wife try to shove "Hillary care" down our throats in his first term.  By the way, the democratically-controlled congress couldn't pass it then, and it won't pass now.  And why??  Because the American public knows a bad bill when they smell one.



Bill Clinton was a liar then and is a consumate liar now, as is Obama.  But with the Communists, "the ends justify the means".  He did everything to undermine our liberty and His lack of leadership, especially in foreign policy, set us up for 911!  Of course George Bush picked up the ball and continued the "Progressive" modus operandi of creating a crisis.  You see Skip, when Ronald Reagan collapsed the Soviet Empire by simply applying American Free Enterprise, he removed the major crisis that had threatened world peace for  seventy years.  So the "progressives" had to start another crisis.  The reason being, you need a crisis to create fear and try to get the American public to loose faith in their freedom, then trade it in to the big "benevalent government for "SECURITY" .



I am afraid you have bought into the fear.  I have not attended a townhall meeting, yet.  If and when I do, I will not go there to be disruptive, but I would want to have my voice heard.  Do you know who wrote HR 3200??  The Apollo Project!!  Yes the members of Congress didn't lift a pen!!  Explain to me how John Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee can say," Read the bill, who reads the bill?  You would need two days and two lawyers to read the bill and explain what it says."  Obama's special interests had the Healthcare bill, the Cap n' Trade bill, the "so-called" stimulus package drafted before he took the oath of office.



So tell, how am I supposed to trust "Him" to do what is right, when the House and Senate don't even draft their own legislation! 



I have read the House HR 3200.  Why 1017 pages??  I could have written the bill on 5 pages or less.  It is a joke, Skip, a big joke.  And Obama and his gang are laughing all the way to treasury.  You better lighten up and read your history.  Not the Progressive Revisionist's version of history.



In addition,  re-read the U.S. Constitution, if you are so inclined. Show me where any president has the authority to intrude on the private sector.  Show me where any president has the audacity, let alone the authority to appoint "CZARS".  Show me where any president has the authority to be elected to more than two terms.  Also, you might want to read the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, where  "We the People" have the right to throw off tyrannical government, when said government oversteps its constitutional boundaries.



Please let me know when you come back to earth.



regards,



the stedge

Stedge,

Now i know you have been watching FOX news because last night i was flipping through the channels and it just so happend that Sean Hannity had these two "blonde" advisors on talking about how it was unconstitutional to have the government push universal health care on to its people.

You know i wish you would just open up your eyes and see both sides. You say that you do look at both sides but you don't. You are not being impartial about anything. You have your ultra conservative views on everything and it is ridiculous.

It is so ridiculous to even hear some of the things that you are writing. Yes we all know that Bill Clinton had an affair and yes we all know that Hillary Clinton tried to push for universal health care. But one thing that you need to look at is that it was not the american people that did not want Universal Health Care it was the lobbyist groups in Washington that shot that down. Fear is what these people have and it is sad to say that every day more and more americans are dying because they do not have access to health care.

It is absurd that you previously mentioned that Universal Health Care does not work. What about EVERY industrialized nation in the world? EVERY european country. It seems to be working for them. I believe what you are truly afraid of is that if you agree with a liberal that you might start to see the other side of the coin.

I do apologize for attacking you previously but it is hard for me to understand why Universal Health Care is so bad? We have had numerous Government run programs in the past and the majority of them have had success. To me you can't use the "Cash for Clunkers" program as an example because it was enacted only a couple of months ago and it takes time for any government agency to release funds. If there is any corruption it is on the part of the dealerships not the government. The dealerships were passing through cars that did not meet the standards that the program outlined.

I have also read the Health Care Reform Bill and i do not see what you are seeing. As hard as this is to believe, i am very impartial when it comes to politics. I do believe that Ronald Regan was a very good president. I do have to disagree with his "Trickle Down" Effect as that has proven to be unsuccessful.

I do look forward to hearing from you and i enjoy hearing your side of the story.

Hi Skip:



Ok..Ok...I have lowered my shields, so to speak.  Please believe me when I say, I would like to see Healthcare reformed in some productive way as to benefit all "American citizens".  I am not so insensitive that I would throw some homeless person out of the ER, because he had no health insurance.  I totally agree with you that the lobbyists are the major problem when it comes to passing any kind of legislation that is right for American.  Frankly, I am still waiting for one our congress persons to address the actual "Cost" of providing care.  All we hear from the townhall meetings is the problem with the access.  HR 3200, as I read it, opens the door for any kind of government intervention. The entire 1, 017 pages speaks in such generalities that it raises more questions. And why are the insurance lobbyists backing the plan??



Last night I was watching a townhall taped from 08/20/09 in Anchorage, Alaska.  Senator Lisa Murkowski, I believe is her name, a Republican, was fielding the questions.  One person, who happened to work for the health insurance companies, asked the most important question of the evening.  He said we are not addressing problem of costs.  When one person says the doctor charged me $1,200.00 for a certain procedure, I have to ask," Why did he charge $1,200.00?  What is the doctor's justification for such a high bill?  Now, granted, I don't know what the procedure was, as the speaker would not elaborate, but this is the issue that has to be addressed.



Tort reform(you know malpractice lawsuits) must be part of the bill, and at this time it is not in any of the proposals.  I have a problem with this, because It raises the question of whether our elected representatives are working for us or for the lobbyists, as you have already, and correctly, I might add, addressed.  I woulds ask that you provide for me a list of the federal government programs over the last 100 years that have actually worked.  By

"worked", I mean ,attained the goal it was designed to accomplish, did not increase the national debt, and did not exascerbate the problem it was designed to alleviate. In my fifty-plus years, I cannot think of many, if any.



Skip, I believe that the American people let these things get out of hand, going way back to the beginning of the 20th century, even earlier.  We assumed that our elected officials always have our best interests in mind.  You and I can agree that has not been the case.  I believe we are in a vise,

being squeezed between the power of big government and big business.  Whether Republican or Democrat, the middle class is getting the big green shaft.  After the election of 2008, I removed my name from the Republican Party.  I am not affiliated with any party.  But I am and will always be a "Conservative" in my views, whether political, or religious.



I have an idea for healthcare reform.  Open the borders for competition with the pharmaceutical companies, allow us to access drugs from anywhere in the world, as long as the FDA approves them(another sore point , I assure you). The feds do not allow us that option( lobbyists, I am sure). O pen the state borders to allow people to access health insurance from out of state.  Make the insurance companies compete for our money.  Make the docto rs compete in a n open market, rather than within their monopoly, known as the AMA.  But I cannot accept, a government run option for myself.  Now, let the government provide for the 12,000,000, or so who absolutely cannot qualify for any healthcare.  Y es, let's do that.   I'm OK with that.  Are you??



Competition drives down costs because it gives the people more options.  The companies competing for your dollars must run their business in the leanest, efficient mode possible to stay competitive.  The natural laws of economics will force them to lower prices for the service they provide, or they fail.  That's business!!  The problem is when there are too few providing the services needed, where the tendency is to fix prices, so as to give you, the consumer, very little choice.  Also, and you will not like this, do not force employers to provide health insurance for their employees, without providing an incentives, like "no corporate taxes" for small businesses, you know, that kind of stuff.



So that's my take.  What do you think?  I would enecourage to read up on our nation's history, and know where we, as a nation have come from, and where we are presently heading, and tell me if you don't see a danger.



Keep in touch,



Regards,



The Stedge






























h the channels and it just so happend that Sean Hannity had these two "blonde" advisors on talking about how it was unconstitutional to have the government push universal health care on to its people.  



You know i wish you would just open up your eyes and see both sides.  You say that you do look at both sides but you don't.  You are not being impartial about anything.  You have your ultra conservative views on everything and it is ridiculous.  



It is so ridiculous to even hear some of the things that you are writing.  Yes we all know that Bill Clinton had an affair and yes we all know that Hillary Clinton tried to push for universal health care.  But one thing that you need to look at is that it was not the american people that did not want Universal Health Care it was the lobbyist groups in Washington that shot that down.  Fear is what these people have and it is sad to say that every day more and more americans are dying because they do not have access to health care.



It is absurd that you previously mentioned that Universal Health Care does not work.  What about EVERY industrialized nation in the world?  EVERY european country.  It seems to be working for them.  I believe what you are truly afraid of is that if you agree with a liberal that you might start to see the other side of the coin.  



I do apologize for attacking you previously but it is hard for me to understand why Universal Health Care is so bad?  We have had numerous Government run programs in the past and the majority of them have had success.  To me you can't use the "Cash for Clunkers" program as an example because it was enacted only a couple of months ago and it takes time for any government agency to release funds.  If there is any corruption it is on the part of the dealerships not the government.  The dealerships were passing through cars that did not meet the standards that the program outlined.  



I have also read the Health Care Reform Bill and i do not see what you are seeing.  As hard as this is to believe, i am very impartial when it comes to politics.  I do believe that Ronald Regan was a very good president.  I do have to disagree with his "Trickle Down" Effect as that has proven to be unsuccessful.  



I do look forward to hearing from you and i enjoy hearing your side of the story.





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Skip:



There is no point in carrying this discourse any further as you are entrenched in your blind faith of the new Messiah!!  Government run anything never works, never has worked, and never will work.  Add on top of that the latest deficit projections show just how much you are being misled down the rosy path of economic destruction.  As for Bill Clinton.  He spent way too much time getting his rocks off with Monica, traded top secret nuclear and other technical data to the Chi-Coms for re-election funding, Had his wife try to shove "Hillary care" down our throats in his first term.  By the way, the democratically-controlled congress couldn't pass it then, and it won't pass now.  And why??  Because the American public knows a bad bill when they smell one.



Bill Clinton was a liar then and is a consumate liar now, as is Obama.  But with the Communists, "the ends justify the means".  He did everything to undermine our liberty and His lack of leadership, especially in foreign policy, set us up for 911!  Of course George Bush picked up the ball and continued the "Progressive" modus operandi of creating a crisis.  You see Skip, when Ronald Reagan collapsed the Soviet Empire by simply applying American Free Enterprise, he removed the major crisis that had threatened world peace for  seventy years.  So the "progressives" had to start another crisis.  The reason being, you need a crisis to create fear and try to get the American public to loose faith in their freedom, then trade it in to the big "benevalent government for "SECURITY" .



I am afraid you have bought into the fear.  I have not attended a townhall meeting, yet.  If and when I do, I will not go there to be disruptive, but I would want to have my voice heard.  Do you know who wrote HR 3200??  The Apollo Project!!  Yes the members of Congress didn't lift a pen!!  Explain to me how John Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee can say," Read the bill, who reads the bill?  You would need two days and two lawyers to read the bill and explain what it says."  Obama's special interests had the Healthcare bill, the Cap n' Trade bill, the "so-called" stimulus package drafted before he took the oath of office.



So tell, how am I supposed to trust "Him" to do what is right, when the House and Senate don't even draft their own legislation! 



I have read the House HR 3200.  Why 1017 pages??  I could have written the bill on 5 pages or less.  It is a joke, Skip, a big joke.  And Obama and his gang are laughing all the way to treasury.  You better lighten up and read your history.  Not the Progressive Revisionist's version of history.



In addition,  re-read the U.S. Constitution, if you are so inclined. Show me where any president has the authority to intrude on the private sector.  Show me where any president has the audacity, let alone the authority to appoint "CZARS".  Show me where any president has the authority to be elected to more than two terms.  Also, you might want to read the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, where  "We the People" have the right to throw off tyrannical government, when said government oversteps its constitutional boundaries.



Please let me know when you come back to earth.



regards,



the stedge

Skip:



There is no point in carrying this discourse any further as you are entrenched in your blind faith of the new Messiah!!  Government run anything never works, never has worked, and never will work.  Add on top of that the latest deficit projections show just how much you are being misled down the rosy path of economic destruction.  As for Bill Clinton.  He spent way too much time getting his rocks off with Monica, traded top secret nuclear and other technical data to the Chi-Coms for re-election funding, Had his wife try to shove "Hillary care" down our throats in his first term.  By the way, the democratically-controlled congress couldn't pass it then, and it won't pass now.  And why??  Because the American public knows a bad bill when they smell one.



Bill Clinton was a liar then and is a consumate liar now, as is Obama.  But with the Communists, "the ends justify the means".  He did everything to undermine our liberty and His lack of leadership, especially in foreign policy, set us up for 911!  Of course George Bush picked up the ball and continued the "Progressive" modus operandi of creating a crisis.  You see Skip, when Ronald Reagan collapsed the Soviet Empire by simply applying American Free Enterprise, he removed the major crisis that had threatened world peace for  seventy years.  So the "progressives" had to start another crisis.  The reason being, you need a crisis to create fear and try to get the American public to loose faith in their freedom, then trade it in to the big "benevalent government for "SECURITY" .



I am afraid you have bought into the fear.  I have not attended a townhall meeting, yet.  If and when I do, I will not go there to be disruptive, but I would want to have my voice heard.  Do you know who wrote HR 3200??  The Apollo Project!!  Yes the members of Congress didn't lift a pen!!  Explain to me how John Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee can say," Read the bill, who reads the bill?  You would need two days and two lawyers to read the bill and explain what it says."  Obama's special interests had the Healthcare bill, the Cap n' Trade bill, the "so-called" stimulus package drafted before he took the oath of office.



So tell, how am I supposed to trust "Him" to do what is right, when the House and Senate don't even draft their own legislation! 



I have read the House HR 3200.  Why 1017 pages??  I could have written the bill on 5 pages or less.  It is a joke, Skip, a big joke.  And Obama and his gang are laughing all the way to treasury.  You better lighten up and read your history.  Not the Progressive Revisionist's version of history.



In addition,  re-read the U.S. Constitution, if you are so inclined. Show me where any president has the authority to intrude on the private sector.  Show me where any president has the audacity, let alone the authority to appoint "CZARS".  Show me where any president has the authority to be elected to more than two terms.  Also, you might want to read the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, where  "We the People" have the right to throw off tyrannical government, when said government oversteps its constitutional boundaries.



Please let me know when you come back to earth.



regards,



the stedge

Skip:



There is no point in carrying this discourse any further as you are entrenched in your blind faith of the new Messiah!!  Government run anything never works, never has worked, and never will work.  Add on top of that the latest deficit projections show just how much you are being misled down the rosy path of economic destruction.  As for Bill Clinton.  He spent way too much time getting his rocks off with Monica, traded top secret nuclear and other technical data to the Chi-Coms for re-election funding, Had his wife try to shove "Hillary care" down our throats in his first term.  By the way, the democratically-controlled congress couldn't pass it then, and it won't pass now.  And why??  Because the American public knows a bad bill when they smell one.



Bill Clinton was a liar then and is a consumate liar now, as is Obama.  But with the Communists, "the ends justify the means".  He did everything to undermine our liberty and His lack of leadership, especially in foreign policy, set us up for 911!  Of course George Bush picked up the ball and continued the "Progressive" modus operandi of creating a crisis.  You see Skip, when Ronald Reagan collapsed the Soviet Empire by simply applying American Free Enterprise, he removed the major crisis that had threatened world peace for  seventy years.  So the "progressives" had to start another crisis.  The reason being, you need a crisis to create fear and try to get the American public to loose faith in their freedom, then trade it in to the big "benevalent government for "SECURITY" .



I am afraid you have bought into the fear.  I have not attended a townhall meeting, yet.  If and when I do, I will not go there to be disruptive, but I would want to have my voice heard.  Do you know who wrote HR 3200??  The Apollo Project!!  Yes the members of Congress didn't lift a pen!!  Explain to me how John Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee can say," Read the bill, who reads the bill?  You would need two days and two lawyers to read the bill and explain what it says."  Obama's special interests had the Healthcare bill, the Cap n' Trade bill, the "so-called" stimulus package drafted before he took the oath of office.



So tell, how am I supposed to trust "Him" to do what is right, when the House and Senate don't even draft their own legislation! 



I have read the House HR 3200.  Why 1017 pages??  I could have written the bill on 5 pages or less.  It is a joke, Skip, a big joke.  And Obama and his gang are laughing all the way to treasury.  You better lighten up and read your history.  Not the Progressive Revisionist's version of history.



In addition,  re-read the U.S. Constitution, if you are so inclined. Show me where any president has the authority to intrude on the private sector.  Show me where any president has the audacity, let alone the authority to appoint "CZARS".  Show me where any president has the authority to be elected to more than two terms.  Also, you might want to read the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, where  "We the People" have the right to throw off tyrannical government, when said government oversteps its constitutional boundaries.



Please let me know when you come back to earth.



regards,



the stedge

Skip:



There is no point in carrying this discourse any further as you are entrenched in your blind faith of the new Messiah!!  Government run anything never works, never has worked, and never will work.  Add on top of that the latest deficit projections show just how much you are being misled down the rosy path of economic destruction.  As for Bill Clinton.  He spent way too much time getting his rocks off with Monica, traded top secret nuclear and other technical data to the Chi-Coms for re-election funding, Had his wife try to shove "Hillary care" down our throats in his first term.  By the way, the democratically-controlled congress couldn't pass it then, and it won't pass now.  And why??  Because the American public knows a bad bill when they smell one.



Bill Clinton was a liar then and is a consumate liar now, as is Obama.  But with the Communists, "the ends justify the means".  He did everything to undermine our liberty and His lack of leadership, especially in foreign policy, set us up for 911!  Of course George Bush picked up the ball and continued the "Progressive" modus operandi of creating a crisis.  You see Skip, when Ronald Reagan collapsed the Soviet Empire by simply applying American Free Enterprise, he removed the major crisis that had threatened world peace for  seventy years.  So the "progressives" had to start another crisis.  The reason being, you need a crisis to create fear and try to get the American public to loose faith in their freedom, then trade it in to the big "benevalent government for "SECURITY" .



I am afraid you have bought into the fear.  I have not attended a townhall meeting, yet.  If and when I do, I will not go there to be disruptive, but I would want to have my voice heard.  Do you know who wrote HR 3200??  The Apollo Project!!  Yes the members of Congress didn't lift a pen!!  Explain to me how John Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee can say," Read the bill, who reads the bill?  You would need two days and two lawyers to read the bill and explain what it says."  Obama's special interests had the Healthcare bill, the Cap n' Trade bill, the "so-called" stimulus package drafted before he took the oath of office.



So tell, how am I supposed to trust "Him" to do what is right, when the House and Senate don't even draft their own legislation! 



I have read the House HR 3200.  Why 1017 pages??  I could have written the bill on 5 pages or less.  It is a joke, Skip, a big joke.  And Obama and his gang are laughing all the way to treasury.  You better lighten up and read your history.  Not the Progressive Revisionist's version of history.



In addition,  re-read the U.S. Constitution, if you are so inclined. Show me where any president has the authority to intrude on the private sector.  Show me where any president has the audacity, let alone the authority to appoint "CZARS".  Show me where any president has the authority to be elected to more than two terms.  Also, you might want to read the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, where  "We the People" have the right to throw off tyrannical government, when said government oversteps its constitutional boundaries.



Please let me know when you come back to earth.



regards,



the stedge

Skip:



There is no point in carrying this discourse any further as you are entrenched in your blind faith of the new Messiah!!  Government run anything never works, never has worked, and never will work.  Add on top of that the latest deficit projections show just how much you are being misled down the rosy path of economic destruction.  As for Bill Clinton.  He spent way too much time getting his rocks off with Monica, traded top secret nuclear and other technical data to the Chi-Coms for re-election funding, Had his wife try to shove "Hillary care" down our throats in his first term.  By the way, the democratically-controlled congress couldn't pass it then, and it won't pass now.  And why??  Because the American public knows a bad bill when they smell one.



Bill Clinton was a liar then and is a consumate liar now, as is Obama.  But with the Communists, "the ends justify the means".  He did everything to undermine our liberty and His lack of leadership, especially in foreign policy, set us up for 911!  Of course George Bush picked up the ball and continued the "Progressive" modus operandi of creating a crisis.  You see Skip, when Ronald Reagan collapsed the Soviet Empire by simply applying American Free Enterprise, he removed the major crisis that had threatened world peace for  seventy years.  So the "progressives" had to start another crisis.  The reason being, you need a crisis to create fear and try to get the American public to loose faith in their freedom, then trade it in to the big "benevalent government for "SECURITY" .



I am afraid you have bought into the fear.  I have not attended a townhall meeting, yet.  If and when I do, I will not go there to be disruptive, but I would want to have my voice heard.  Do you know who wrote HR 3200??  The Apollo Project!!  Yes the members of Congress didn't lift a pen!!  Explain to me how John Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee can say," Read the bill, who reads the bill?  You would need two days and two lawyers to read the bill and explain what it says."  Obama's special interests had the Healthcare bill, the Cap n' Trade bill, the "so-called" stimulus package drafted before he took the oath of office.



So tell, how am I supposed to trust "Him" to do what is right, when the House and Senate don't even draft their own legislation! 



I have read the House HR 3200.  Why 1017 pages??  I could have written the bill on 5 pages or less.  It is a joke, Skip, a big joke.  And Obama and his gang are laughing all the way to treasury.  You better lighten up and read your history.  Not the Progressive Revisionist's version of history.



In addition,  re-read the U.S. Constitution, if you are so inclined. Show me where any president has the authority to intrude on the private sector.  Show me where any president has the audacity, let alone the authority to appoint "CZARS".  Show me where any president has the authority to be elected to more than two terms.  Also, you might want to read the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence, where  "We the People" have the right to throw off tyrannical government, when said government oversteps its constitutional boundaries.



Please let me know when you come back to earth.



regards,



the stedge

the stedge:

There is no point in trying to reason with a leftist. To them, the end justifies the means so no amount of logic, common sense, truth, evidence, or historical proof of how their ideology serves to destroy will be tolerated.

Modern day "liberals" are irrational; modern day "liberalism" is based on runaway emotion, not Reason & Facts. They don't know Logic, & they are very ignorant of history, the Constitution, economics, political philosophy, etc.

I find that all modern day "liberals" are very angry people. I don't know the reason for this. Perhaps our liberal adversary on this page will explain to us the source of his anger & rage toward us.

A few "liberals" do have some brains underneath all the confusion in their heads. Their intellectual problem is that they are ignorant & can't think! They have unthinkingly absorbed what they have been told. But these can be taught how to think & they can learn!

So, we must try to determine which ones can be rescued & which one we must simply ignore.PH

Hi Lainie:



Yes, I know...but I am trying to maintain an attitude of civility and discourse.  I mean we don't want be mean-spirited, narrow-minded, mobs, right??



The way I see it, you have to keep throwing the Truth at them, regardless of their reaction.  And, by the way, I do watch FOX NEWS every night. AFter spending all my life watching ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, and later MSNBC, CNN, etc...etc... FOXNEWS is a breath of fresh air... I can only hope they can

stay on the air.



Regards,



The Stedge

How do we contact the President to let him know we are against his plans?

President Barack Obama

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

(202) 456-1111

Frankly, the president doesn't care if we are against it. He wants it passed before Congress figures out we are against it.

The way Congress figures this out is for us to tell them. And we should tell them we will vote them out of office in 2010 if they support this legislation. Protest, write letters, emails, faxes . . remind all Congress they are in Washington to serve us . .not the other way around.

If Congress doesn't pass it, Pres Obama has nothing to sign. End of story (at least this go round).

i am pretty confident in saying that you have not reviewed the document and that you are going on what FOX news is saying right?

Also go to: http://www.capwiz.com/afanet/issues/alert/?aler...
That will take you to a website that has links to find 1) your elected officials (so you can write or e-mail them) 2) current issues and legislation 3) an election guide 4) media guide (find and contact local and national media 5) legislative alerts and updates
This webpage also has a link for you to open that will show you an "overview" of some of the concerning sections of H.R. 3200 or a link to the Library of Congress page where you can view the entire text of H.R. 3200. But beware.....this Act of 2009 is very long and confusing!

In talking about healthcare I have not heard anything about the incestuous relationship between the FDA and the drug cos. , how many that are approved that shouldn't have been. How the drug cos. start wooing medical students before they graduate, wine and dine them and give them lots of free samples. One that should never have been approved is nutrisweet/aspartame. There have been countless stories of it's harm but it's still on the market. When there are natural substances that help people and don't do the damage a drug does and the drug cos. fight tooth and nail to stop natural substances from being approved as they can't patent them and make a lot of money. Statin drugs are a good example of something that does a lot of harm but are still allowed to do damage. The've made a big deal about lowering your cholesterol and noone tells people that our bodies need cholesterol and some cases of Alzheimers and congestive heart failure are due to the cholesterol being lowered too much. At least 50% of all heart attacks the patient has normal cholesterol.

I bet you also haven't heard anything about the incestuous relationship between the drug and insurance companies and the members of Congress who are on the committees making plans for the government to take over our health care.

They have former staffers who are now lobbyist's that make sure huge contributions are made to their former Congressional boss.

Go over to www.opensecrets.org for an eye-opening list.

Just out of curiosity. What do you do for a living? My advise is: stick to whatever you are doing because you obviously did NOT go to medical school and you have no clue what you are talking about!

If you are so sure of your own doctrine, then maybe encouraging people to learn about the things they don't understand would be better than trying to shut them up.

Gentlemen:

A friend also forwarded me all of the provisions of the ObmaCare bill. I replied to Obama that it sounded like it was written by a protege of Vladimir Putin in the Kremlin. It is a completely anti-capitalistic, socialist piece of loegislation. I asked why Obama and members of Congress have private health care coverage, but do NOT want American citizens to have private health care coverage.

The health care reform that Obama and the Democrats are putting forward have nothing to do with health or care. They are simply an exercise in control of between 17-20% of the economy and another step towards their goal of micromanaging our lives.

After all liberals believe only they are intelligent enough to determine what is best for everyone and should have complete control over what we read, eat, and how we act because only they are enligtened enough to have this knowledge.

hey listen here you NAZI!!!! Obama is trying to provide healthcare coverage to everyone!! you must have been reading that in SPUTNIK because when i read it i don't hear any of that!! And p.s. VIVA LA SOCIALISM

skip2489:

There was a television ad a while ago from the United Negro College that ended "a mind is a terrible thing to waste."

God created man above all the other creatures giving him an intellect and a conscience. Those unable to use their intellect and poison their consciences are those full of pride and arrogance.

They are the ones that become or support tyranny. A warped soul cannot grasp the truth.

Who is going to lead the charge to prevent this atrocious bill from being past?

Don't worry about who's going to lead the charge, do some things yourself. There are plenty of people telling about what's wrong with these bills.Call your Congressional Representative and your two Senators and tell them you are against it and want them to vote no on it. It would be good to call them every day and tell them that. Also, if they are having local meetings during their August recess, attend some of them and let them know in person why you're against Obamacare.

yeah we have seen how well you republicans do at town hall meetings. it is like you let a bunch of dogs out that have down syndrome and threw a bunch of bones in the town hall. You all need to wake up!

Most intelligent people know that the best way to save money on health care is tort reform to do away with frivolous medecal malpractice cases but when a majority of lawmakers and the president are lawyers we know that it won't happen because it could eliminate work for lawyers and they might need those jobs some day.

All pills are not equal. Generics may be cheaper, but they are not always the same. Some docs prefer branded products because the tests they do on them are more reliable than for those on the generics. So, that means the doc can better make judgments re: dosage, etc. as he or she monitors treatments. One example is "synthroid." To think that Dr. O knows best is frightening.

Rangel, a Democrat Committee Chairman no less, had the audacidty to say the congresspeople did not have time to read what was written in the Healthcare bill. My God! How stupid can that comment be? That is what our legislators' have the job for, READ, UNDERSTAND, then VOTE.
I heard Prez Obama speak at the AARP Town Hall Meeting a couple of days ago. What he said and what the Democratic Committee members were saying were not in agreement either. They are not reading, thay are not analyzing, they are not thinking but they are LYING! VOTE NO BILL for the sake of our nation. Let physicians and healthcare professionals write the bill and get it done RIGHT, in the name of GOD!

11. Physicians (myself included) are VERY opposed to this. MD's over 50 will get out of the field. Younger MD's will stop taking ER call and drastically cut back hours. Many MD's will not see hospitalized patients. The incentive to work at 3 am on a Friday night just will not be there. Overhead will still be as high, litigation threats still exist, but the monetary compensation for awful hours will have vanished. Patient care will suffer, and access to MD's will be almost impossible. To compensate, the gov't will provide the VAST majority of patients with NP's or PA's. The BULK of health care will likely be delivered by NON-physicians.

Part of this bill will make grants available to entities that provide training to "underrepresented and underserved" populations. Meaning affirmative action will be the policy of all medical schools, the standards for getting into medical school will be lowered, and those receiving these grants will be trained in the leftwing political ideology whose intent is to eliminate more people through abortion (all private insurance policies will be forced to cover abortion and of course, the government-run policy will use taxpayer dollars to fund its mandated coverage of abortions) and the chronically ill and elderly since it won't be "cost effective" for the government to keep them alive.

Alll of this is good...we are passing by the most important topic of credibility. Neither the house or the senate bind themselves to the nightmare they will vote on us. That is right. THey will not be on the same plan as we are. If that does not speak volumes, what does? We ought to tell them that they must adhere to anything they pass for the people of the united states.

they never have been! they have always had a private plan! read the plan. the only thing he is trying to do is to offer healthcare to everyone. If it means 20 dollars has to come out of my paycheck every month then so be it!!

Does anyone know what effect this will have on Long Term Care insurance holders?

I'd suggest you call your representatives and ask them.

I'll venture a guess that they won't know since it's doubtful any of them have even read this 1,000+ page implementation of Socialism bill.

Does anybody want to, buy some snake oil. It will cure anything.

Hey Greg,

Intelligence did not run in your family did it?

We need to STOP all of this nonsense now and save the Insurance industry!! If those who cannot get and/or do not have insurance, then the government should offer them a plan but why does Massachusetts MANDATE that EVERY citizen have health insurance and it works!!
Why shouldn't it be that way for EVERY state?
We need to stop OBAMA NOW with this plan of his!

hey you retard. that is what he is trying to do. READ THE PLAN

noone has the right to call someone names, so if that is your level of
intelligence then you shouldn't be responding. You don't have any right to
call someone a "retard", so I am reporting you.

Skip's just doing his part to portray where his party stands, and more importantly what kind of people they are. Way to go Skip, doing a great job there, keep it up. He won't get it, and he'll probably call me a retard too. But afer so many times, it just comes out as static with little meaning.

We need to STOP all of this nonsense now and save the Insurance industry!! If those who cannot get and/or do not have insurance, then the government should offer them a plan but why does Massachusetts MANDATE that EVERY citizen have health insurance and it works!!
Why shouldn't it be that way for EVERY state?
We need to stop OBAMA NOW with this plan of his!

I am unemployed and uninsured, however this proposed legislation is not what i want. I want my choice of doctors, my choice of insurance companies. Let companies sell across state lines. currently in Oregon cheaper policies cannot be sold if they compete with state run Oregon healthcare, this is expensive to the taxpayer and does not provide the best insurance. Let competition decide who has the best poliicies and rates not the gov't

yeah because that has worked for the last 30 years. God listen to yourself.

davidmjellison: The "open", "transparent", "I will listen to everyone including those who disagree with me" president does NOT respond in any way to emails sent via the White House website even if you check "response requested" box.

You don't even receive a confirmation that your email was received which was done with Bush.

I have tried to read the plan and it really would be impossible to understand without an attorney and perhaps the original writers. Which leads me to the question..."Just who did write this?" It sure as hell wasn't any of the people who sponsored it. And after a few pages we start seeing the name the "Commisioner" apparently the title of the person who will oversee all this and be accountable to the Health and Human Services Director. There are many places where it says that "blah, blah blah will be decided at the discretion of the Commisioner ". So who picks this guy/gal. Do they have to be approved by the Senate? Too much power in the hands of one person...

House and Senate committee member's staffs wrote the legislation.

Yes the "Commissioner" who will be a political appointee (i.e., selected by the president without confirmation by Congress) along with other political appointees to make up the body of the commission will make all the decisions as to what our health "care" and costs will be.

The purpose of these health care reform bills is not to make health care more affordable and less costly but to implement another plan by the Democrats to remake our country into an oligarchy run by liberals. After all, they have already taken over the financial and auto industries and have had control of schools, colleges and universities, the courts and the media for 50 years. All they need control of now is the economy and that is what they are working on, as is obvious.

The U.S. is imploding because of so called "leaders" we the people have elected into office. Weaken the U.S. as a super power and Israel is left defenseless in the minds of her enemies. Your left with an attack on Israel in which out of the rubble comes one individual to put together a 7 year peace treaty with Israel and her enemies. Sound familiar? Read your Bible to see how it ends. Know where your going my friends and tell your families and the people you love all about it.

Exactly right.

Obama's intent is to weaken the U.S. and he is no fan of Israel.

Obama is no defender of liberty or democracy. The people he has associated with and were mentored by are all ultra-radical left-wing haters of freedom.

Look up the background of all of the people he has put into positions of power and influence and it is clear this man intends to destroy America.

Go to www.discoverthenetworks.org and look up the people who make up his administration. It's a whos-who of left-wing radicals.

He believes, as supergod, he can talk to the enemies of civilized people and viola! After centuries of practicing barbarism, they will mend their wicked ways only because he talked to them.

whoah there! I think you have been reading too many Left Behind books!!

I truely believe you are right... I think this man is the ANTI - CHRIST , that they talk about in the bible, and that it says there will be false prophets!! .. I think this is the beggining of the very end...! GOD HELP US ALL..!

This is the address my senator gave me when she got sick of my emails to her about it.

President Barack Obama

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

(202) 456-1111

You fogot the proviso that once you are declared ready for the death pill the Feds get to take your assets away from your heirs.

Social Security fund is dry (read here: sponged up for "other" programs / entitlements for votes) and statistics for non-thinking or caring bureaucrats shows that most health care costs are amassed in the last 25% of ones life.... Our government has made it almost financially impractical to become a physician... We have a lack of doctors for the current needs of Americans.
The political powers in DC need votes to maintain their gravy train.
.
.
Connect the dots:
Take more money from the working segment of the US society, wrap it in a supposed "benefit to all" (universal health care) ....
Kill off the segment that is no longer "productive"... too sick or in-firmed to vote, allocate the existing resources (doctors) to keep their voting demographic alive and well and.. voila... they just bought their votes for the next 2 generations.
Of course We the People are then enslaved for the foreseeable future.
Mr Franklin was right when he commented; "..... (Your Republic) if you can keep it."
I fear we are about to lose it.

10 Reasons Why You Should See an Eye Doctor
I know most insurance doesn't cover it, but you might want to see an optometrist. You might need bifocals, because while you're writing this, you clearly haven't been looking around you.

Am I right in think that if we can just avoid "Obamacare" our perfect system where everyone gets all the care they need and there are no conflicts of interest, adverse effects on business, waste or bureaucracy can just continue to shine as a beacon to world? Whew, that was close! Thanks Heritage Foundation!

Wait a minute...

1-2. I'm not really sure where this idea that people are fundamentally attached to their existing health insurance came from. People do not want THEIR insurance, they simply want, good, comprehensive, affordable insurance. Most people don't have that now. Perhaps because private insurance such as it exists has been unable to provide it. Perhaps.

3. I appreciate the baseball analogy but it simply doesn't apply. If the private insurance companies disappear it will be because they are unable to adequately provide the service they claim to deliver. Right now, they only provide a service such that it is profitable. God forbid they should have to live up to other standards.

4. It's a good thing insurance companies don't ALREADY do that all the time but deciding which treatments they cover. Except right it's worse, because Doctors have a perverse incentive to prescribe the most expensive medicine from drug companies, regardless of effectiveness. Nobody wants the government in medicine, but is it really any better to rely on the invisible hand of the market for diagnoses? To let insurance companies and drug companies dictate what medicine is available to whom based on (the richest) people's ability to pay?

5. Individual Mandates are indeed a clumsy and ineffective and sometimes unjust way to make sure everyone buys insurance. Affordability standards are thus required and it becomes a huge mess like in Massachusetts. But everyone SHOULD buy insurance, that is the IDEA of insurance, of sharing risk of solidarity. If people recognize that, and it's affordable, they will buy insurance anyway.

6. Damn, evil taxes. It's a good thing small businesses are already being strangled by the cost of providing (or the moral cost of choosing not provide) insurance to their employees. Way to look out for the little guy!

7. See #4, but good God, are you really suggesting that DOCTORS and PATIENTS are the sole arbiters of medical decisions right now in this country? What world are you living in? Cost is already a HUGE factor in determining what treatments are feasible for patients and, for those who can afford it, our current system has a wasteful and destructive tendency to over-prescribe to drive the enormous profits of what can only be called the "medical-industrial complex". Patients are not qualified to make most serious medical decisions, but insurance companies, drug companies aren't either and they do regularly. Furthermore, doctors have huge conflicts of interest and their decisions are already compromised by the profit motive in the system. In addition, all of this happens on a individual basis with no uniformity or rationality. A more centralized, publicly accountable standard would go far to preventing this kind of interference of non-medical factors in medical decisions.

8. This is a sticky ethical issue that deserves some attention but it is no way central or essential to health care reform as such. Protest the allocation of the funds, not the reform itself. Its use here is a political ploy.

9. Ah, there's that dirty word "entitlement". But surely money is no obstacle when American lives are at stake? At least that seems to be the rationale whenever we go to war. It's entirely possible that this plan will be very costly, despite its efforts to "modernize", eliminate administrative cost and promote preventative care. What is certain is that the costs of our current system will continue to grow. Who should pay that cost? Who should benefit from its spending? These are the questions which should be asked. But I guess a (less absurdly un-) balanced budget and low taxes is more important than people's health.

10. Right, the stimulus package. If we had just slashed taxes like our guts were telling us to, unemployment would be back to "tolerable" levels and we'd all be mortgaging houses and buying American cars again.
But I agree. All bills should be thoroughly read and understood before they are voted on. Unless, of course, that bill has to do with national security and patriotism. Then, you can pretty much just pass it straight away.

Now, don't get me wrong, there Obama plan has a lot of flaws and, even if it passes, our health care system will still be problematic. But this list shows little or no awareness of the pathologies of the current system, (economic rationing, constrained choice, administrative inefficiency, conflicts of interest). If these are your reasons for not supporting health care reform, I suggest you just move to another country.

Here is one example of the kind of person Obama has selected for his administration. This is typical of all of the people he has surrounded himself with his entire life. These are people who share his ultra-leftwing radical philosophy and ideology.

Are these really the kind of people that most Americans feel are qualified to make public policies and to lead this nation?

John Holdren, BHO's White House Office of Science and Technology Policy and is the co-chair of Obama's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology.

John Holdren is an advid population-control advocate and rabid environmentalist.

In a book he co-authored, "Ecoscience," he calls for "a comprehensive Planetary Regime [in order to] control the development, administration, conservation and distribution of all natural resources."

One solution, writes Holdren, is "adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods" which would help weed out those "who contribute to social deterioration."

As for the constitutional authority, Holdren writes, "Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society."

"If some individuals contribute to general social deterioration by overproducing children," insists Holdren, "if the need is compelling, they can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility -- just as they can be required to exercise responsibility in their resource-consumption patterns -- providing they are not denied equal protection."

As for global solutions, Holdren writes, "The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries' shares within their regional limits. Control of population size might remain the responsibility of each government, but the Regime would have some power to enforce the agreed limits. If this could be accomplished, security might be provided by an armed international organization, a global analogue of a police force. Many people have recognized this as a goal, but the way to reach it remains obscure in a world where factionalism seems, if anything, to be increasing. The first step necessarily involves partial surrender of sovereignty to an international organization."

Holdren is of course careful about how his "Planetary Regime" might enforce these limits, but given the common bonds of Fascists and Socialists, a contemporary global solution with much more efficient ecological results than dismembering children in the womb would be to release a biological agent targeting mass populations in developing regions of Asia and Africa -- something like strains of Swine or Bird Influenza. After all, AlGorites consider climate change to be a crisis of global proportions, and such a crisis requires innovative solutions.

Holdren concludes, "This may be the last opportunity to choose our own and our descendants' destiny. Failing to choose or making the wrong choices may lead to catastrophe. But it must never be forgotten that the right choices could lead to a much better world."

Given Holdren's musings about population control, should these folks be in charge of determining who receives what medical care?

Ever heard of "thinning out the herd"? The swine flu was made in a laboratory, and the vaccine will KILL the weak, the young and the elderly. And then the government get's to decide who get's medical treatment? I'm glad I live close to Mexico- I'll go there to see the doctor.

If H1N1 was a conspiracy of the US Govt., then why did it originate in OTHER countries first?!?

Farnham's Freehold.... an allegory.

Holdren trained in aeronautics, astronautics and plasma physics and earned a bachelor's degree from MIT in 1965 and a PhD from Stanford University in 1970. He taught at the University of California, Berkeley for more than two decades. His work has focused on the causes and consequences of global environmental change, energy technologies and policies, ways to reduce the dangers from nuclear weapons and materials, and science and technology policy.[1][2]

Holdren served as chairman of the board of directors of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) from February 2007 until February 2008 and as president of the AAAS from February 2006 to February 2007.[2] He was the founding chair of the advisory board for Innovations, a quarterly journal about entrepreneurial solutions to global challenges published by MIT Press, and has written and lectured extensively on the topic of climate change. He was confirmed as Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy on March 19, 2009 by a vote of 61 to 31[3] in the Senate.[4] [5] He testified to the nomination committee that he does not believe that government should have a role in determining optimal population size [6] and that he has NEVER endorsed forced sterilization

WE ARE SEEING A SOCIALIST PRESIDENT INSTITUTE THE GAMEPLAN FOR A COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT........DON'T THINK SO?......WHERE DID YOU FIRST HEAR THE TERM "CZAR" IN GOVERNMENT?.....THE OLD SOVIET UNION........I WONDER IF THEY WILL USE THE SAME GOVERNMENTAL TACTICS TO QUIET THE OBJECTORS.....PRISON

to lainie --keep up the good work ! to mirror and bifocals-- most of us know that for communist/socialist tyranny's to succeed in crushing freedom and liberty, they need "useful idiots" to be part of the "enemy within" , but heres a tip for you, nothing says they also have to be so overly long-winded . Elitist, busybody, "useful idiot" , I accept all that about you, but shorten it up a tad. and hey when you're right I give credit "Thanks Heritage Foundation" is how many of us sincerely feel......

Here, Here!
Thanks Heritage!

This congress and liberal democrats scares me because they put a man in power that we
dont know nything about ,he has never run a company or met a payroll,never had military experience, thus he does not understand it at its core. always blaming others and lacks humility. Half of his life have aligned himself with radical extremists who hate America. He is a cheerleader for the "blame America" crowd and deliver this message abroad.He wants to change AMERICA to a European style country where government sector take over the private sector,he prefers "wind mill" to capitalizing on our own ast oil,coal .finally, he prefers controlling over governing. WE NEED TO SAVE OUR CONSTITUTION , EVRYTHING HE HAS DONE FOR THE LAST 6 MONTHS IS SOCIALIST& MARXCIST>

WE NEED RON PAUL IN OFFICE! He is a politician and a doctor, and knows just how bad this will harm our country. Obama is pushing for this because he is a puppet. He only has the title of president and does not run the country. The banking cartel does, and they want America to convert to socialism. It's all part of the New World Order. Wake up people!

I'm curious about the "take(ing) the pain killer..." statement by BHO.....
Isn't verbally prompting someone to suicide illegal in most if not all of our 50 (not 57) States?
.
.
.
of course I am forgetting that he is better than the rest of us.... as he keeps mentioning to us "I am the President (after all)"
All hail the Chairman!

Physisican assisted suicide is legal in Oregon and Washington and will soon be coming to your state.

What better way to get rid of sick people who are a drain on the health care system than to convince them to check themselves out? Make it sound all nice and sweet by calling it "death with dignity" and you can bet that not only the terminally ill will be encouraged to check out but in the best interest of the state, others will also be convinced to die with dignity.

your a moron

I generally distain the claims everyone keeps making of any action being socialism... But really, suicide for the good of the state?!? THAT if nothing else sounds like socialism!

You have officially become a burden. We'll start by asking nicely first: "Can you go die?... Please?".

The future of America is at stake, people! This draconian bill is all the more ominous when we consider Obama's new "Science Czar", John Holdren, is a coercive eugenicist who has called for forced abortions, mass sterilizations, and mandatory population controls. This is a man with tremendous influence both inside and outside the White House who advises the president on matters where science affects domestic and foreign policy, not the least of which includes healthcare.

Please read the following special bulletin in which the bill is analyzed and its evil intent is plainly exposed! I urge you to read this and then call your Congressmen and Senators to get this bill killed before the September vote!!

The link is: http://tinyurl.com/lpc2ru

The full link is: http://www.rickjoyner.com/Articles/1000054411/M...

You have just hit the tip of the iceburg with your list but everyone ought to go to your website and read it.

Why do people think Obama and the Democrats wanted to rush through some form of their health care bill? If people actually knew what their plans were they would be shocked and appalled that our own government has the audacity to believe those in power have the right to determine who should live and who should die.

the text in that document says quite the opposite. they give people the option to draw up a living will. They could be reimbursed for that, that is all that the wording states in the bill. You people take one thing and run with it. I bet by the end one of you will come up with the notion that George Bush was a good president.

if this health scam is so wonderful for us common folk, why dont the "politicians" give up their insurance which as president stated was the best, and opt for the overtaxed, underperforming scam of the century.

This is one of the most pertinent questions all of us should be asking.

The biggest myth about the healthcare reform is that the left keeps saying that the insurance companies are controlling the outcome of your healthcare. The simple fact is they are trying to control the costs of healthcare. It is generally refered to as cost containment. The insurance companies do not have the ability to stop you from receiving a treatment or procedure. The plan purchased determines if it is a covered benefit or not. The government, on the other hand, will determine whether you receive a treatment or procedure. Big difference!!!
The key to healthcare reform is the costs and reducing them(tort reform, allowing people to purchase across state lines, allowing companies to purchase from a group, etc). The HIPAA laws guranteed that pre-existing conditions can not be excluded permanently from groups. The left makes you believe that people either can not afford health insurance or if they have a plan, it covers nothing. Another big lie!!!

that is one of the most absurd things i have ever had the disdain to read. You are so far off in every statement you have made. The private insurance companies or (Non Profit) as some of you like to refer to them as are controlling america right now. They are dictating who lives and who dies. By having people scour for "Pre Existing" conditions they are getting out of saving someones mother, father, brother, or sister. You should do a little research before you make these far fetched statements. I can only infer that you must work for one of these companies. You should be ashamed of yourself to spit these lies to these people.

Are any of you here self-employed? I doubt it. Because if you were, you'd be wanting some kind of change because you'd have to either go without insurance or pay extremely high premiums to get it with our current system. Or, you would be denied coverage because of a minor pre-existing condition. My husband and I are both self-employed writers. We were recently quoted a premium payment of $1,000 per month. It's a premium we cannot afford.

Something has to change. Stop listening to all of the right-wing propaganda and find out what's really happening to friends, neighbors, relatives who are not able to get insurance under the current system. Then you might have a different opinion.

Stop listening to all of the left-wing propaganda and open your mind to the consequences of Obamacare.

Something has to change? Some things ought to change but one thing that should never change is the people of this country willingly giving up their freedoms and allowing their own elected representatives to enslave them.

Have to read anything the Republicans have suggested to change our health care system?

Have you weighed the consequences of what will occur if either the House or Senate bill written by Democrats is passed?

karenmc, I am self-emlpoyed with several children and live below 100% of the poverty level, but I carry my own insurance policy for the family. As expensive as it is, I prefer this over anything the government has to offer. Nothing is free, M'am. Wake up. Every worm the federal government dangles in front of you come with a sharp hook and a long string attached. At the other end of that string, they are holding the pole. No thanks. Just look at the TARP money given to banks. They are lining up to pay it back, but are not being allowed to. Why? The government wants to maintain control over them. And why is such coercion being used to force states to accept bail out money, when their governors don't want it. Just look at Arizona for example. Why did Obama have 4 cabinet secretaries write to the governnor of AZ to coerce them to accept the bail out money? You owe it to your self to research the facts. Propaganda and truth are quite different. Truth really sets you free and can be researched and verified. Propaganda is just marketing spin for unthinking people, which they accept willingly without doing their own research to find out if it is really so. Maybe you don't know who you are writing to when you say such things as "stop listening to x, y, or z". There are some highly educated people on this site with advanced degrees, who know how to do their research.

Of you were 100% below the poverty line, you would make $0 a year and not be able to afford anything unless your talking about welfare, in which case you couldn't afford insurance anyways.
Stop being a lying troll.

You seem like a very bitter person who is also vicious and quick to attack others and call names like a school child, rather than take the time to educate yourself with the facts. I feel sorry for you, but I will reach out and lend you a hand just the same. You obviously don't know how to calculate the poverty level. It does not mean yo umake $0 per year. See the federal guidelines at:
http://www.dhhs.state.nh.us/DHHS/PIO/LIBRARY/Po...

As you will see in the chart, a family of 7 people would need to earn $33k/yr to be at 100% of the poverty level. That means your eyeballs are just barely above the water line. If you earn half that or less, you are underwater. Keep in mind that this is a federal guideline that applies nationwide, so in some states in the northeast where the COL is much higher than the southern states for example, these same income levels are much worse than 100% of the poverty level.

All that to say that obviously a person in this situation needs to draw from other assets they own to make up the shortfall.

In all fairness, you said 100% below the poverty level, which is a far cry different than saying 100% of the poverty level.

Nonetheless, I suppose my reaction was that of a kneejerk reaction type as it would be impossible for someone living at 100% below the poverty level to be capable of affording nearly anything, and I therefore assumed you a liar. However--and I mean very gentle offence (lol)--how would someone self employed living at the poverty line and supporting a family even be able to afford healthcare? It seems to me that your family would be going without food or shelter at some point on those wages. Of course, I dont know your situation. I can, however, easily point out how a public option would ease the burden on your family if you are indeed telling the truth...

Karen,

Your and your husband can obtain a catastropic care insurance plan for about $3,000 each covering all expenses over $5,000 and self-insuring yourself for the portion below 5k. This will be far cheaper in most years.

You also complain that you will spend $12,000 not telling people that you will be allowed to deduct 85% of those premiums. Assuming a 20% tax bracket means the taxpayer already assist you with paying for $2,040 through lowered taxes. You can also form a HSA (Health Savings Account) placing money in there that will grow tax-free and remain tax free on usage if an when you take it out for bona-fide medical purposes. You will also obtain a deduction for the money contributed to an HSA up to approx $5,400 per family easily covering most of your deductible item. If you do not use the money for medical in any year it carries over indefinitely for your benefit.

Therefore, before your liberal ass asks us to pay for your health care please investigate all options and stop supporting the asshole President.

Karen;
I too am self employed. My wife and I work very hard to raise our family as Free, Thinking and Industrious Americans... Yes our health care premium ($1,100/month) is expensive and is the largest single monthly payment we have; however, I would pay even more to keep bumbling, immoral, criminal buffoons like barney frank, chris dodd, charlie rangel, schmuck shumer and the rest of their thieving ilk away from any decision(s) impacting my familys' health care.
To give up control of your health care to government stooges who could care less about you, is very ill advised. I do NOT want the liberal mindset of self destructive / suicidal behavior to become a government mandated part of my life.

Thank you Karen. Finally someone that isn't clouded by Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity. I wish people would realize that the conservatives would rather see people die than agree with the democrats.

If you want to be free you have to take care of your self. If your needs are met by somone else your not free.
The great experiment is not compatible with a large part of humanity. Who just want to be taken care of . You can't change human nature but you can use what is and that is what the
political class does. Use us. Manage us . Herd us with words and force. Zoo keepers.
I hope we make good pets.

the animals in the zoo don't have to deal with BC/BS. That is why they live longer!!!!

Government-run health care leads to reduced access, deterioration in the quality of care, and rationing, even as it burdens the economy and destroys jobs.

It is an iron law that government-run health-care systems eventually resort to price controls to keep costs down, and that such controls reduce the number of willing suppliers. This is not some economist's theory; it is observable all over the world. Some countries manage the problem better than others, but every one that relies heavily on a central government to allocate health-care resources eventually experiences some level of rationing as a consequence of politically driven decisions to limit budgetary exposure. What's more, in an attempt to ensure equity, these countries also restrict or eliminate citizens' ability to purchase health care outside the system, to prevent the wealthy from jumping to the front of every queue.

This is what ObamaCare would mean for U.S. consumers. It would vastly expand costs and government control, even as Medicare and Medicaid already threaten to push the federal budget deficit to dangerous levels. If most of the country is enrolled in publicly sponsored insurance, as the Obama plan implies, fiscal reality will push Congress to adopt ever more draconian cost-control measures. It will only be a matter of time before stories start circulating, as they do in other countries, of months-long waits for treatment, and of care denied to patients who fall outside formal or informal "guidelines" for providing services.

We can turn over all decision-making to the government and accept the consequences of an unresponsive, bureaucratic system; or we can build a functioning marketplace, with government oversight, that puts consumers in control.

It's troubling though, isn't it, that all these other countries with their horrific price controls and rationing, etc. are so often rated so much higher than the U.S. in performance, efficiency, and patient satisfaction?

While a functioning marketplace with government oversight, empowering consumers sounds rather appealing, that's pretty much how much how our system is now, minus the functioning part. The heart of the problem, I think, is to always view patients simply as 'consumers' in a marketplace instead of human beings with needs that are in no way necessarily matched with their ability to pay. There are many industries, say, home appliances, restaurants, even automobile insurance (which IS mandated by the gov't, incidentally, if you have a car) where this mismatch of need and ability to pay (that is, express their demand in way that registers in the market) is not of crucial importance. Government oversight of the marketplace is sufficient to protect consumers and they are in turn free to shop at will ensuring, theoretically at least, a trend toward equilibrium. But none of those commodities are necessary for people's lives.

The health care market radically different from this model and if the last few decades of inflation, inequity and general non-conformity to received market theories has demonstrated. Health insurance markets, for myriad reasons, are highly dysfunctional and unresponsive; I am not convinced there is any way to remedy that. Whether humans have a right to health care or not, you must admit these are at least troubling aspects of your vision.

Expand government control?
You're kidding right?

No president has manipulated and sought to spy on us as much as Bush.

I voted for McCain.
And I support Public Healthcare.

If Government healthcare is so flawed, then why does every Senator, Governor and Representative have it. Military member and their families have it and it is considered the best in the nation.

Amen. Finally someone sees the truth. If Socialized Medicine is so bad why do all of our Government officials have it?

Here is another question that I have which I haven't heard anyone address.

If the government believes it has the right to mandate everyone has to have health insurance, which both the House and Senate health care bills do, why wouldn't they, in the future, mandate that everyone has to have car insurance, rental insurance, long-term disability insurance, life insurance, homeowner's insurance, flood insurance, and on and on?

And who would they determine has the right to make the rules, premiums, and payments for all of these forms of insurance? Why the government, of course!

What a shame, then, that we live under an absolute monarchy and are unable to elect representatives or influence our government's decisions in anyway.

last time i looked it was obligatory to have car insurance!

Section 163 - Electronic Transfers "For those who have amassed assets enough to take care of themselves in their old age will have those assets confiscatede in the name of fiscal resonsibiity, because by this time every citizen will be entered into a national data base under the guise of improved efficiency." This entire bill is a criminal endeavor and a blatant, malicious attack on the American people.

If this were the only horrific bill coming out of this administration and Congress it would be bad enough but when you add in the phony economic stimulus bill, the forthcoming cap-and-trade bill, the government take over of the financial and auto industries, and the trillions of dollars in appropriations bills that put us into so much debt we will never survive, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize Obama's true intent which is to destroy our capitalist, free-market system and make us all slaves to Socialism.

I know this is the Heritage Foundation so conspiracy theorizing and chest-thumbing for capitalism is considered good form, but I suggest that you find someone with even moderately socialist leanings and ask them whether they think Obama is a socialist.

I've talked to several and they are, for the most part, just critical as you are of the President. Some of them more so. They'd laugh all the way to the "withering away of the state" to hear him branded with that label.

Socialist sister, maybe the reason your socialist friends don't like aka is because he is a an anti-American communist. Communism is a more extreme form of socialism. Aka was mentored by a member of the American communist party in Hawaii anmed Frank Marshall Davis. He also nominated Anthony "Van" Jones, an admitted communist to be his "Green Czar". This man proudly wears that label and is an ex-con with 2 arrests who has spent years in prison. Show me a man's friends and I will show you his future.

His political career was started in the home of William Ayers who admitted bombing the US Capitol Building and the Pentagon and says he only wishes he could have done more.

Communism is a political ideology that rejects religion and advocates the "collective ownership of property and the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members." While aka was raised Muslim and claims that another of his famous friends, Jeremiah Wright "brought him to Christ", he is neither. These are simply convenient social groups for him to affiliate with in order to seem more acceptable to people of those same groups. He once said that he wants to be a blank slate upon which anyone can paint whatever they want, so that he can be to them (in their minds) whatever they would like him to be. If you want to think he is a Muslim, he will let you think that. If you want him to be a Christian, he will let you think so. But look at the fruit in his life, which is certainly not Christ-like. He has mocked the Bible and approves infanticide. The only one he would allow you to worship if he has any say in it is himself.

I find that an Obama hater will also be an Obama hater, regardless of circumstance. If you're an Obama hater before the election, and then you're an Obama hater after the election, nothing will change that.

Read my full comments below on HC reform, it may help.

I have one thing to say to you, doow. I noticed that all you have done is go through these comments and paste the same two sentences on any comment that is damaging to B.O. aka B.S. 1) It's obvious you didn't come to this site for its excellent, objective reporting on the issues of the day that jeopardize the future of our nation, 2) It's equally obvious that one of your chief goals in visiting this site was to make this baseless false accusation in an attempt to discredit everyone who states factual evidence against aka that is incriminating. This practice exposes your true intentions. It also shows that you and your ilk have no facts with which to defend against the evidence we have presented against aka, so you resort to name calling, smears, and accusing people of hatred.

This is still a free country, of the people, by the people,and for the people. That means WE are the government and the people in Washington are simply our paid representatives. So if we need to lay the facts out on the table for all to see, as is done in a legal court of law, then we are within our right to do that under the first amendment. If you have proof that the evidence we present against aka here is not true, let's see your proof in defense...let's see a real logical rebuttal. But it's obvious you don't have one when you resort to your childish, hatespeech accusations.

1AmericanPatriot, it is a very appropriate screen name. You established my point as expected. Have you ever tried to read back your own comment? It is easy to criticize, and much easier to do personal attacks. This diverges from the issues and seems to validate your point. Even an idiot has the right to their opinion, or did someone gave you the key to the Kingdom, then again, is this your Kingdom? I use my cut and paste very appropriately. Most of the comments here are personal attacks period, therefore, may comment is appropriate. If you start your ‘discussion’ with a personal attack, then, no amount of reasoning will ever change your outlook.

If you like a rational discourse, ceased the personal attacks and respond with reason. I’m not a Democrat, Republican nor Independent. I’m neither Conservative nor Liberal, think swing vote. I do not have a label. I suggest you review the comments your peers utilize, check the adjectives and tell me they’re not personal attacks. Pity me, ha.

A side note, this is a free country is never in question. This site is a testament to that.

thank you. Finally an intelligent response. I started reading some of these comments that were written by these people. I could have spent all day reading this filth and lies.

An interesting feature of HillaryCare was that it would be illegal for a provider to charge for an unapproved service. What about ObamaCare? If I gave a vitamin shot that was unapproved could I be jailed?

You want to know about Goverment run and operated health care? Read this month The American Legion or www.legion.org. Think about this? If there is this amount problem with veteran, think about National health care. Look at ths VA and ask if this the care you want?

Read my comments below, it may assist.

Rory
How can I get the very latest version of the so-called health care bill (HR 3200)? I need to be prepared for my democrat congressman's town hall meeting (assuming he has the guts to have one)!
Thanks.

Listen here Story Rory. Come to where i live. they eat up little republicans like you for lunch.

I oppose this health reform ,I am very worried, because iI don't want to loose my health care , and I know there are going to ration our health care! this a horrible thing .Why is this man trying to shove this down our throats!! we don't want this, not this type of reform.., and is obama and all his cabinet , are they going to have goverment run health care? .. I've called my senators , my congressmen and told them that I don't want this!! .. What else can we do!! Can't he listen to the American People that they don't want this rationed health care!! GOD HELP US ALL !!

Read my comments below, it may answer some of your issues.
God has nothing to do with this, help not necessary.

Every Senator, State Representative, President, VP, Secretary of state, they all have this type of health care that Obama is trying to get. Wake up! And p.s. God did help us. He got rid of Bush.

Every Senator, State Representative, President, VP, Secretary of state, they all have this type of health care that Obama is trying to get. Wake up! And p.s. God did help us. He got rid of Bush.

I Urge all my fellow Americans , that we have fight this tyranny , that this man want impose on us.. Please start attending the town hall meetings in your neighborhood and protest , and say that you oppose this health reform!! And call your congressman and your senators , from your state , and tell them that you oppse this reform!!! the more people say NO TO OBAMACARE .... the more they'll have to listen to us and tell them if you sign this BILL . I am not going to vote for you 2010 elections!!! This man is a communist and a radical!! I just can't believe this , this is like a nightmare to me .. My family is from Cuba , and I fear this is going to turn into a communist country!... GOD HELP US ALL !!

I find that an Obama hater will also be an Obama hater, regardless of circumstance. If you're an Obama hater before the election, and then you're an Obama hater after the election, nothing will change that.

haha. please move to cuba. i bet they wouldn't want you either!!

I am currently trying to read through certain portions of H.R. 3200 "America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009" that was recently introduced to Congress and I'd like to ask any of you if you interpret Subtitle B - Public Health Insurance Option, Section 221 like I'm interpreting it. I believe #'s 1 - 4 above are correct after I have read this Section. (If you'd like to read the entire Act, you can go to: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.... ) It is the Library of Congress page. It basically say, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will provide for an Exchange, referred to as "The public health insurance option" BUT, (B-1)the public health insurance option is only available through the Exchange. It goes on to state in (B-2) "the PHIO shall comply with requirements related to benefits, benefit levels, provider networks, notices, consumer protections and cost sharing". IN OTHER WORDS, THE PUBLIC HEALTH CARE OPTION WILL BE CONTROLLED BY THE GOVERNMENT. Am I correct in the way I interpret this?

When you see the word "public", then yes, that means the government.

Yes, the Public Health Insurance Option is only available through the Exchange.

The Secretary of Health and Human Services will have the authority to determine the premium rates and the payment rates for items and services available in the Public Health Insurance Option.

I heard that somewhere in the over 1,000 page bill that I will also be paying for gender change operations. Has anyone else heard this, if so where in the bill is it. I would like to include it as one of my objections on the letters I am sending out.

This take over makes me sick and their pill can't make me feel any better, no matter what the color.

Yeah it is right next to the clause that says that you are a retard if you believe that statement. I also believe it is after the sub-section that "Your mother should have used birth control before she had sex with your father". Somewhere in there.

There's one thing I don't understand , don't these Democrats , meaning senators and congressman, Don't they see that this man is a COMMUNIST and a LIBERAL, or are they in denial! .. Or do they just want to go along what ever obama says!! all these Democrats have mothers , fathers, sons , daughters , brothers , sisters... don't they know their hurting the whole country by signing this bill.. ! I just can't really believe that all these people are truly evil! .. How can this happen in this country! I just still can't believe what is happening in our country.. Who the hell is Obama, to come and take away our freedom and govern our health care.. , .. Lets just pray to God , that they don't sign this bill!... .. But if this goes through all hell is going to break loose... .. I just know the American people are not going to take this oppresion and dictatorship...

Yes you are right we no longer have to deal with the evil dictator known as George Bush.

I find that an Obama hater will also be an Obama hater, regardless of circumstance. If you're an Obama hater before the election, and then you're an Obama hater after the election, nothing will change that.

Social Security (Benefits for the retired, disabled, widowed, young & disabled children), and Supplemental Security Income (Aged and Disabled indigents), state public assistance, Medicare & Medicaid. These programs provides Social and Economic support across the whole spectrum of Society. Taken as a whole, it provides economic and social stability.

Just Social Security alone provides financial support for over 50+ million individuals. Health Care if it passes will be as significant as the Social Security program. Obama may have the support, partisan or otherwise to pass it through. The Social Security program has a reputation of being a ‘PONZI’ to some, but I can’t imagine if this program cease to exist. Health Care reform has similar issue as Social Security, that is, the unimaginable cost.

The Social Security benefits are back up by the faith of the United States Government, thus, it’s unlikely that it will stopped. And if it does stopped, then, so will the govt. It's call 'faith' like our currency-it has no value to anyone except the 'faith' of the govt. itself.

Going bankrupt is fear mongering and you think the 'Stimulus' spending is huge you haven't seen anything yet if Social Security actually goes.

I don’t believe the piece meal approach is the way to go. This Health Care reform approach is similar to Social Security, that is, ‘mandatory’ participation. I believe it’s the only way this approach will work.

The basic Social Security Program was established in 1935 and it has been changing to meet the needs of the population. I think the current Health Care should be the same approach. Establish a basic and change from there. Like Social Security, participation should be mandatory for this to work.

In my opinion Health Care Reform is necessary for economic stability and quality of life. The programs affect you, your parents, children, etc. What you eliminated will be a very expensive safety net that serves you in time of need for you and your family.

The clear message that’s important here is that we need Health Care reform. Having 40-50 million uninsured is destabilizing for the affected individual and his family. What we need to a system that gives coverage to those who does not have affordable or no insurance for whatever cause. I treat this current reform as a Safety Net just like Social Security. It is necessary for economic stability. We should not wait for another recession to establish another ‘Social Security.’

You say "the clear message that's important here is that we need Health Care reform".

What the House and Senate bills are doing is TRANSFORMING, not reforming health care. They are the steppingstones of a complete takeover of our entire health care and insurance systems by the government. That is why so many of us object to these bills.

In addition, government mandated and run programs historically grow, are full of inefficiencies, waste and fraud. Social Security, SSI, Medicare, and Medicaid are all examples and proof of this.

Yes it's important to establish a safety net to help people unable to help themselves. But these bills go much too far and at this point, are so ambiguous and full of holes no sane person should support them.

I think Franklin Roosevelt encountered similar issues with the passage of the Social Security Act in 1935. This is history repeating itself; he is also a Democrat, then again, I don't like labels.

Lainie:

This is my first time I'm using this email method, hope it works.


The basic Social Security Program was established in 1935 and it has been
changing to meet the needs of the population. In my opinion, the piece meal
approach is not the way to go. This Health Care reform approach is similar
to Social Security, that is, ‘mandatory’ participation. I believe it’s the
only way this will work.

I’m sure you heard of the saying, ‘if you have a bad apple in a barrow, you
don’t throw out the barrow. I assume you’re familiar with the enactment of
Social Security in 1935, have you noticed over the years the program
expanded some. In its later years, the program added benefits for the
Spouse, Children, Parents, and the major ones, Disability and Medicare.

I expect many disagreements with a bill this size, plus the pork barrels
this is to come, or already here, but in my opinion Health Care Reform is
necessary for economic stability and quality of life.

One more thing. It isn't a matter of being an "Obama hater".

What many of us "hate" is the fact that he and the Democrats are putting the future of this country into jeopardy by spending so much money that is owned by foreigner's such as China, and putting the very survival of our democratic republic at risk.

The number of uninsured differ greatly between the proponents and opponents of the proposed health care plan. Proponents argue there are as many as 50 million uninsured in this country. Opponents break that number down into several categories - one of which is 17 million illegal immigrants - which this plan would cover! It doesn't appear as though proponents dispute this fact. Why? Because they have every intention of providing government sponsored health insurance for illegal aliens at taxpayers expense!

We as a society and by law are obligated to treat the ill regardless of alien status. This exclusion that some of you want for illegal is inhumane and also shooting yourself in the foot.

Currently, each individual provider foots the expenses and goes out of business at times. HC reform will address these issues, but only if the public is not confused and vote it down.

In reality, when Congress withholds funding for medical services for illegal aliens, it puts the medical profession in the bind. They are obligated to 'do no harm,' then, are you forcing them to commit murder, withhold treatment for the sick or dying, or force them to go into bankruptcy?

I am a student without health insurance.

I have a problem with chronic kidney stones.

Since tax dollars already in one way or another pay for my problem, which costs more.

Several trips per year to an ER costing anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000 per visit.
Or seeing a specialist at a lab to get my stones analyzed and find the culprit and discover a way to avoid making kidney stones altogether.

My future dialysis treatments will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars when my kidneys eventually begin to fail.

Or should I just suffer and die?

SimonDowney: You say you have no health insurance. Who then is paying for the treatment of your kidney problems?

You ask "should I just suffer and die"? At this point, you should be asking your representatives that question because the answer may lie in any final passage of health care reform.

Ask them if they can tell you what benefits, services, treatments and drugs ANYONE will be eligible for if either of these bills pass.

After you have received an answer from them, would you please share it with the rest of here?

SimonDowney: I posted this response to another comment that may be of interest to you. It is of similar issue.

Response:

We as a society and by law are obligated to treat the ill regardless of alien status. This exclusion that some of you want for illegal is inhumane and also shooting yourself in the foot.

Currently, each individual provider foots the expenses and goes out of business at times. HC reform will address these issues, but only if the public is not confused and vote it down.

In reality, when Congress withholds funding for medical services for illegal aliens, it puts the medical profession in the bind. They are obligated to 'do no harm,' then, are you forcing them to commit murder, withhold treatment for the sick or dying, or force them to go into bankruptcy?

What about the illegal aliens? Are we to subsidize them too?

When Congress withholds funding for medical services for illegal aliens, it puts the medical profession in the bind. They are obligated to 'do no harm,' then, are you forcing them to commit murder, withhold treatment for the sick or dying, or force them to go into bankruptcy?

Will you turn away a sick 2-month-old child because he/she is illegal?
Do you know what if this situation happen at present and what’s the difference after HC reform?

Turning away the sick and the dying is inhumane and I would call it murder at its worst. I sincerely hope our medical providers does not act as such, then again, would you go to a provider that commit such action? I guess our compassion ends with the pocket book.

We will not be fooled again by this administration. The Federal Gov. has failed in every project they attempt to run, i.e. Post Office, Social Security, Medicare. They try to hide the fact that illegal immagrents will be covered. The plan must be stopped. Focus instead on drilling now to create jobs, keep our money in America, and stop illegals from coming into the counrty. They are draining our economy by jamming up our schools, medical facilities and prisons. When will Congress start earning their pay? If Obamacare is so great why doesnt Congress go on it for 5 years and show us just how good it is.

Yes, there are an issue with Social Security but any program has ‘issues.’ I don’t think you would consider eliminating Social Security. Social Security met the objective of its creation, it provided ‘support’ to those in need. I have faith that ‘Congress’ will resolve them, despite the personal attacks from the public. It is easy to criticize, and much easier to do personal attacks. This diverges from the issues and seems to validate their point.

For example, "The Federal Gov. has failed in every projecj," do you really believe that?
As far as coverage for illegals, as have to excuse my cut and paste, it's a common misconception:

We as a society and by law are obligated to treat the ill regardless of alien status. This exclusion that some of you want for illegal is inhumane and also shooting yourself in the foot.

Currently, each individual provider foots the expenses and goes out of business at times. HC reform will address these issues, but only if the public is not confused and vote it down.

In reality, when Congress withholds funding for medical services for illegal aliens, it puts the medical profession in the bind. They are obligated to 'do no harm,' then, are you forcing them to commit murder, withhold treatment for the sick or dying, or force them to go into bankruptcy?

Will you turn away a sick 2-month-old child because he/she is illegal?
Do you know what if this situation happen at present and what’s the difference after HC reform?

How can you tell when Obama is lying? His lips are moving.
He is a pathalogical liar, and I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
He's a socialist, marxist with nothing on his agenda but control of our country and destruction of the American system of growth and wealth.
He doesn't want to create jobs, he wants to take all he can from Americans while he and that skank wife of his live high on the hog on the American taxpayer.
I despise both of them.

I have been pitied and called a hate monger, but here is my opinion:

I find that an Obama hater will also be an Obama hater, regardless of circumstance. If you're an Obama hater before the election, and then you're an Obama hater after the election, nothing will change that.

Please stop with the name-calling. What's with the personal attacks on Obama; 'is intelligent discussion your intend or just personal attacks because my opinions disagreeable. Does personal attacks validates your view, or that's your method of support for your view?


Try reading some of my other post if you're really interested in an 'adult' discussion, otherwise attack away.

Although all of these listed reasons and concerns are entirely valid, far too few of our fellow citizens have been educated that the government has no valid constitutional authority to engage in the health insurance business. As far as government-mandated treatment schedules and procedures, these have existed, via various reimbursement rules, for many years. Those people who do have private managed care health insurance policies may be able to keep them, but only if they are willing to pony up the increased premiums that will result from government mandated coverage and treatment requirements. Insurance is run for profit. Government is run for power.

The government has showed us how well they've run Social Security and Medicare,why would anyone with half a brain consider putting them in charge of our health care?

Er, Social Security has been around since 1935, and Medicare since 1965. It supports 50+ million beneficiaries. Then again, let try a little personal attack, do you know whats Social Security? Who has half a brain, obviously not you.

If the system we had now was anything short of completely broken, unjust and inefficient, this type of doomsday prophesying and knee-jerk anti-government sentiment might be more appropriate. I urge to to take a more considerate perspective. It would pay to give any plan to fix this mess a very sympathetic look. Then we might actually be able to see its real flaws instead of just ranting about the evils and tyranny of government.

Stop sounding the alarm. This is not a power play. Obama is not a socialist, by most standards he's not even particularly left-wing. He certainly isn't perceived that way in Europe. If free enterprise were doing a good job with health care, he wouldn't touch it. Politicians avoid controversy if they can help it and the Democrats are a party of the status quo. Government is not, in fact, out to control every aspect of peoples' lives. In short, especially in this country, we have a lot more to fear from disease and whether or not we can afford it when it strikes us, than government's role in facilitating (or controlling) that care.

What we ought to be criticizing are the PRACTICAL ineffective elements of the plan. Namely, the public option, at this point, cannot feasibly be financed. It's set to behave like private insurance (financed on premiums) and largely NOT funding from the government. Given the current uninsured are those likely to be already sick or relatively poor (i.e. the highest cost group), it seems hard to fathom how this plan, even without the need to make profit, would be able to sustain itself. In other words, it's far more likely to solve nothing and fail financially than it is to take away precious freedoms.

Right now all members of congress, politicians, soldiers and veterans receive quality government health care. This is not to say that their insurance is flawless. Hardly. But it is considerably better than the kind most of us have access to. Members of congress are certainly not complaining about their public health insurance. That is telling.

We should act not out of fear of the alleged tyranny of this plan, that is a logic of terror. Instead we should act out of a positive desire to create a better system than the woefully inadequate, fragmented one we have. We can start by recognizing that, at its heart, despite its many failings, such is the essence of the Obama plan.

If we believe the answer lies in the free market then our conclusion is far from evident. Our current 'free market' system causes the economic ruin of many, constrains others in their choice of employment and puts a great burden on small businesses. And costs continue to rise, public and private. In the face of that, the onus of proof lies with us to suggest an alternative and to demonstrate how Obama's plan fails to address those issues.

Obviously you have been drinking the Obama cool-aid. Obama is not a socialist? Are you kidding? Before being elected Obama was the most liberal senator in the country. Look at his voting record. Healthcare is one more initiative for government to control our lives and to weaken the private sector. The stimulus plan is a bust, cap and trade is horrible legislation and now you want government to increase taxes to make your health decisions? Muster up some self confidence to make your own life decisions instead of depending on "big brother" to take care of you.

Rob Clerk:

You're my perfect cut and paste read on:

I have been pitied and called a hate monger, but here is my opinion:

I find that an Obama hater will also be an Obama hater, regardless of circumstance. If you're an Obama hater before the election, and then you're an Obama hater after the election, nothing will change that.

Please stop with the name-calling. What's with the personal attacks on Obama; 'is intelligent discussion your intend or just personal attacks because my opinions disagreeable. Does personal attacks validates your view, or that's your method of support for your view?

While I completely disagree with you about Obama (he is clearly a very left-leaning, partisan, purveyor of Socialism, as are the leaders of the Democratic Party), and Obama and the Democrats are the ones pulling the fear-factor levers, you did bring up very good points.

Yes, let us ask ourselves why the president and Congress are not considering putting on the table the ability for regular Americans to enroll in the health insurance plans they are allowed to enroll in. That is certainly very telling.

The problem began long ago when employers decided to offer health insurance to employees as a way to attract and keep good employees. That allowed people to believe they had a right to lucrative insurance which helped ensure health care costs would continue to rise.

Health care and insurance are extremely complex. That is why any reform should be carefully thought out. My objection to these plans of transformation, not reform, is Obama and Congress are trying to hurriedly push through the system they want without due dilligence.

Why not overhaul Medicaid instead of rewriting all of the rules of health care and health insurance? Or why not allow people to enroll in the same types of health insurance plans Obama and Congress have?

Totally agree that the Healthcare Plan is a terrible thing for America. I saw another site that is trying to generate support to stop Obama's plan before Congress. Look at www.stopobamahealthcare.com.

Keep up the pressure it is the only way we will make a difference!

Does anyone consider the influence by lobbyist's on those in the committee's who are working on health care reform?

This data comes from OpenSecrets.org

The Health Care Lobbyist Complex

In total, five committees will have held hearings on the issue and marked up a bill to reform the health care system in the United States. One of those committees stands out as the key arbiter on the many sticking points of the proposed legislation, the Senate Finance Committee.

The Finance Committee contains a high volume of lawmakers with close ties to the health and insurance industries through both campaign contributions and personal relationships.

As the chair of the Senate Finance Committee, Sen. Max Baucus is at the center of the congressional effort to craft health care reform legislation.

Lobbying disclosure filings for the first quarter of 2009 reveal that five of Baucus’ former staffers currently work for a total of twenty-seven different organizations that are either in the health care or insurance sector or have a noted interest in the outcome. The organizations represented include some of the top lobbying organizations in the health sector: Pharmaceutical Manufacturers and Researchers of America (PhRMA), America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), Amgen, and GE Health Care.

The overall health and insurance sectors haven’t just been kind to Baucus’ staffers, but they’ve also aided his campaigns handsomely over the years, especially in his barely contested 2008 reelection campaign. In 2008, Baucus received $1,148,775 from the health sector and $285,850 from the insurance sector. For his career he has received $2,797,381 from the health sector and $1,170,313 from the insurance sector.

Nine out of ten committee Republicans with former staffers turned health care lobbyists. OpenSecrets.org does not report any staffers turned health care lobbyists for Sen. John Cornyn. These nine Republicans are connected to 22 different health care lobbyists.

Both Sens. Charles Grassley and Orrin Hatch have four connections to former staffers. Both senators are in powerful positions on the committee, especially as it pertains to health care legislation. Grassley is the current ranking member on the full committee and Hatch is the ranking member on the Health subcommittee. Both are also top recipients of money from the health and insurance industries. Over his career, Grassley received $1,876,479 from the health industry and $858,224 from the insurance industry. Hatch, meanwhile, pulled in $2,311,744 from the health industry and $659,307 from the insurance industry over his career.

These 22 lobbyists represent over 100 different health care organizations. Unlike with some of the lobbyists connected to committee Democrats, there is little overlap in clients. It appears that most of these staffers turned lobbyists have their own unique portfolios.

As with former staffers on the Democratic side, these lobbyists represent some of the top health care organizations lobbying in Washington. Eli Lilly, Pfizer, PhRMA, Blue Cross Blue Shield, and Merck are all represented.

The money from the health and insurance industries into Republican committee member campaigns is relatively high. The insurance industry is the top contributor to Sen. Grassley’s campaigns over his career. Pharmaceutical companies are the top contributors to Sen. Hatch’s campaigns. In fact, every Republican committee member has a health or insurance industry as their one or more of their top five career contributors.

Remember how Obama keeps touting his jobs creation mantra?

Well guess what? Plenty of federal government jobs will be created if the House health care reform bill is passed.

The healthcare bill now before the House of Representatives provides for the creation, expansion, and extension of 33 entitlement programs and the implementation of an additional 53 offices, bureaus, commissions, and programs.

The health bills coming out of Congress would put the decisions about your care in the hands of presidential appointees. They'd decide what plans cover, how much leeway your doctor will have and what seniors get under Medicare.

Here is the viewpoint of a couple of these presidential appointees.

Start with Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. He has already been appointed to two key positions: health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget and a member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Emanuel bluntly admits that the cuts will not be pain-free. "Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change," he wrote last year (Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008).

Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others" (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).

Yes, that's what patients want their doctors to do. But Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on somebody else.

Many doctors are horrified by this notion; they'll tell you that a doctor's job is to achieve social justice one patient at a time.

Emanuel, however, believes that "communitarianism" should guide decisions on who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia" (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).

Translation: Don't give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson's or a child with cerebral palsy.

He explicitly defends discrimination against older patients: "Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years" (Lancet, Jan. 31).

The bills being rushed through Congress will be paid for largely by a $500 billion-plus cut in Medicare over 10 years. Knowing how unpopular the cuts will be, the president's budget director, Peter Orszag, urged Congress this week to delegate its own authority over Medicare to a new, presidentially-appointed bureaucracy that wouldn't be accountable to the public.

Since Medicare was founded in 1965, seniors' lives have been transformed by new medical treatments such as angioplasty, bypass surgery and hip and knee replacements. These innovations allow the elderly to lead active lives. But Emanuel criticizes Americans for being too "enamored with technology" and is determined to reduce access to it.

Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, agrees. He recommends slowing medical innovation to control health spending.

Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls, though he concedes they're "associated with longer waits" and "reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices" (New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001). But he calls it "debatable" whether the timely care Americans get is worth the cost. (Ask a cancer patient, and you'll get a different answer. Delay lowers your chances of survival.)

Obama appointed Blumenthal as national coordinator of health-information technology, a job that involves making sure doctors obey electronically delivered guidelines about what care the government deems appropriate and cost effective.

In the April 9 New England Journal of Medicine, Blumenthal predicted that many doctors would resist "embedded clinical decision support" -- a euphemism for computers telling doctors what to do.

Americans need to know what the president's health advisers have in mind for them. Emanuel sees even basic amenities as luxuries and says Americans expect too much: "Hospital rooms in the United States offer more privacy . . . physicians' offices are typically more conveniently located and have parking nearby and more attractive waiting rooms" (JAMA, June 18, 2008).

No one has leveled with the public about these dangerous views. Nor have most people heard about the arm-twisting, Chicago-style tactics being used to force support. In a Nov. 16, 2008, Health Care Watch column, Emanuel explained how business should be done: "Every favor to a constituency should be linked to support for the health-care reform agenda. If the automakers want a bailout, then they and their suppliers have to agree to support and lobby for the administration's health-reform effort."

Let's be realistic. When you have a president and a Congress who believe in population control (i.e., controlling the population of poor) and believe the earth is more important than human beings, what kind of plans do you think they will implement to control the costs of health care which is one of the central proposition in their desire to reform health care?

Both plans provide for federal taxpayers paying for abortions. African-Americans have the greatest number of abortions.

Cuts in Medicare are in the plans. These cuts will affect seniors and the disabled.

The list of mandatory coverage of benefits by all health insurance plans will actually increase the cost of health care so to offset those increases the government will utilize what they call "comparative effectiveness", which is a tool that will be used to eliminate the people who are economic drain. (Why else would the plans call for mandatory end-of-life consultations for seniors every 5 years or sooner if they are diagnoised with a chronic or life-threatening disease? How is explaining to seniors how to end their life ever considered "health care"?

Eventual rationing of care will have to occur unless huge premium increases and huge tax increases for the rich are implemented especially when you take into account how much everyone is going to pay to fund the economic stimulus package, the bailout of the financial industry and auto industry and a future cap-and-trade bill that will increase the price of everything.

Yes some of you will claim this is "scare-mongering" but if you look at what else is going on within this administration and within Congress it is evident what their true intentions are.

The recent passage by the House of the appropriations bill for the State Dept. mandated that certain federal tax dollars are not spent in other countries whose population growth may be detrimental to biodiversity and the environment. In other words, the U.S. has specifically confirmed it believes the environment is more important than human life!

I may have voted for McCain, but healthcare with a public option isn't just a great idea supported by every business owner I've known. It's been tested and proven successful in other countries. The real ones behind the scenes fighting this are the insurance companies as well as many republicans that wish to grandstand. If people are presented with a public option, then we have a true chance at preventative care as opposed to treating illnesses. I believe that it will promote competition by forcing--and no, not through strict regulation--insurance companies to compete. A public option in healthcare is, by any means, a right to citizens of America.

Each senator or representative--and so on--are presented with a list of optional plans by which they can choose to be covered. Our countries military families are regarded as having some of the best medical care available. Both of these are managed by the government and paid for by us. Does anyone truly believe that there is a clause that would allow for a person covered under a public option to not be allowed to get a necessary surgery? That is ridiculous and there is no such clause.

I've heard a lot people trying to say that they will be forced into a doctor they don't want. Not only is that entirely untrue of the public option, it is a perfect description of private health insurance. Those worried about tax payer funded abortions probably wouldn't be happy to find out that Planned Parenthood is already funded in-part by public tax dollars. Furthermore, when was the last time anyone heard of any insurance covering an elective abortion? No one goes to their insurance and say’s"Hey, I want an abortion. Is that covered?" It doesn't happen because it is not, nor would it be under a public option.

I do not have healthcare. At this time, I cannot afford healthcare. So when I have one of my several-time-a-year kidney stones, it is written off with tax dollars. My visits will costs tax payers anywhere from $5,000 to $25,000 per episode. I have been passing them for about 10-years despite drastic diet changes including no tea, soda, strawberries, spinach, soy products, limited red meats, dairy products and much more. This amounts to literally hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars, not to mention the cost of my dialysis when my kidneys ultimately begin to fail via this flawed method. If someones insurance is forced to compete or perish, they will compete and the consumer will win. If I have a public option available to me, my diagnosis and preventative care will cost less than tens of thousands as opposed to potentially millions of dollars.

Under a public option, many peoples insurance would simply have to compete the way that Toledo private schools like St. Johns and Central Catholic have to compete with the Toledo Public School System. Are public schools always worse than private schools? Absolutely not. Does it force private schools to provide higher quality results or shut down? Definitely. One could make the same comparisons with UPS and USPS.

Ignore left vs right, healthcare is not a privilege. We are supposed to be the greatest country in the world; we sure as hell don't act like it. We cannot progress as a civilized society if even a few are allowed to slip through the cracks. This is not welfare, it is not a handout, medicinal care it is not a privilege. It is a duty to protect those who need it.

As of right now, if my daughter were to get sick, I would have no choice but to go into debt, which I would with no question. This would detract from ensuring that she has all of the other necessities conducive to a successful childhood and thus a successful life.

Recently in France, there was an unseasonably hot summer. Many of those who could not afford A/C died. Their government--with approval of their constituents--passed a "tax hike" (<-scary buzzword) that funded air conditioning for those who didn't have it in hopes that such a disaster could never happen again. Think about that, they came together in support of those who needed it. Instead many here blame Katrina on crime and punishment of a perceived increase of atheism by God. How ridiculous...

Plain and simple, those who oppose public healthcare are selfish and apathetic people who would rather be protected inside of their "bubble" while --knowingly or unknowingly--promoting a caste system by which the untouchables are left to perish so long as their own "bubble" contains the GPS option on that shiny new car.

This is not communism, it is philanthropy at worst.

I would gladly sacrifice for the betterment of my fellow Americans, for it is the duty of those who know better.

9 and 10 are the only valid points. i see the word "doubt" being used over and over here as a form of proof or evidence. This thing reads like a scare tactic.

I heartily agree.

Society benefits from healthy people. And a cohesive, competitive, universally available health care system and insurance plan would produce more healthy people and, in principle, lower costs. (In any case, more equitably distributed).

Let us start from position that all people who are sick should be treated. That is the most important exigency and then one that most benefits us all.

The basic Social Security Program was established in 1935 and it has been changing to meet the needs of the population. In my opinion, the piece meal approach is not the way to go. This Health Care reform approach is similar to Social Security, that is, ‘mandatory’ participation. I believe it’s the only way this will work.

I’m sure you heard of the saying, ‘if you have a bad apple in a barrow, you don’t throw out the barrow. I assume you’re familiar with the enactment of Social Security in 1935, have you noticed over the years the program expanded some. In its later years, the program added benefits for the Spouse, Children, Parents, and the major ones, Disability and Medicare.

I expect many disagreements with a bill this size, plus the pork barrels this is too come, or already here, but in my opinion Health Care Reform is necessary for economic stability and quality of life.

What we need is a system that gives coverage to those who does not have affordable or no insurance for whatever cause. I treat this current reform as a Safety Net just like Social Security. It is necessary for economic stability. We should not wait for another recession to establish another ‘Social Security.’

does "for whatever cause" mean I can drom my blue cross plan and taxpayers will but my insurance for me?

I support HC Reform, that is, health insurance for the uninsured. You may asked as much detail as you want, but my focus is insurance for the 'uninsured.'

Lianie:

These comments are meant for you, but I new at this. I apologize if its confusing.

We as a society and by law are obligated to treat the ill regardless of alien status. This exclusion that some of you want for illegal is inhumane and also shooting yourself in the foot.

Currently, each individual provider foots the expenses and goes out of business at times. HC reform will address these issues, but only if the public is not confused and vote it down.

Lianie,
You think we need to treat aliens and euthanize seniors? In Canada they do not treat aliens,a nd they do not treat uninsured Canadians unless they pay cash

When Congress withholds funding for medical services for illegal aliens, it puts the medical profession in the bind. They are obligated to 'do no harm,' then, are you forcing them to commit murder, withhold treatment for the sick or dying, or force them to go into bankruptcy?

Will you turn away a sick 2-month-old child because he/she is illegal?
Do you know what if this situation happen at present and what’s the difference after HC reform?

If what you say about Canada is a fact, I pity them as a society. Turning away the sick and the dying is inhumane and I would call it murder at its worst. I sincerely hope our medical providers do not act as such, then again, would you go to a provider that commit such action? I guess our compassion ends with the pocket book.

Euthanize seniors? Only in your Kingdom.

If this were true about Canada - then one would expect a lower life expectancy then the United States. Canadian life expectancy is ranked 12th in the world compared to 24th in the world for the United States. Also most major religions (including Catholicism) do not oppose living wills that prevent unnatural extensions of life)

Please cite a creditable source on the differences in life expectancies between Canada and the U.S.

currently each individual provider can issue a 1099 for uncompensated care and have the IRS collect payment for them

How about for the indigent illegal's, where are you sending it to?

Lianie:

In summary, there will be many disagreement with this bill, but I feel the good override the not so good. You don't throw out the whole barrow because of a bad apple. HC Reform is necessary just like Social Security and similar programs.

One bad apple spoils the whole barrell.

I agree there will be many disagreements with this bill because it is entirely a bad bill.

You say HC reform is necessary. Rushing through a poorly thought-out, expensive transformation of health care and insurance isn't going to solve problems but create more. As someone mentioned, debate on implementing Social Security took over 1 year. When the government intends to drastically alter a huge portion of our economy that also will have health and life consequences, we need lots and lots of time and debate.

Besides, the two health care programs already run by the government, Medicare and Medicaid, are perfect examples of why so many people object to this bill and object to the government expanding into health care and health insurance.. Government involvement in anything is always costly, inefficient, and a sure track for lots of fraud and abuse.

Oh and Social Security will be broke by 2016 according to a May 13, 2009 article in the Washington Post. That means either higher taxes, benefit terminations, and increases in the retirement age or a combination has to occur in order to save it.

According to the Post, Medicare’s financial health “deteriorated less sharply in the past year than Social Security’s, but it remains the more urgent problem. The trust fund that pays for hospital care under Medicare is now predicted to run out of money in 2017, two years earlier than forecast a year ago.”

$1 trillion was spent on the two programs last year which accounted for more than one-third of federal budget expenditures.

The government can't control the increase in costs for Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid and yet we are supposed to trust them to transorm everyone's health care? That's like asking people to stand out in the middle of a busy freeway and hope the cars miss you while knowing you're going to get run over.

how about line 19 secion E on page 425 where doctors talk patients into euthanasia to control costs

That only applies to people who has galtsgulch's disease.

I saw in one of your posts above where you said "Please stop with the name-calling. What's with the personal attacks on Obama; 'is intelligent discussion your intend or just personal attacks because my opinions disagreeable. Does personal attacks validates your view, or that's your method of support for your view?"

You've just blown your entire credibility through ignorance and hypocrisy.

thank you, I’m afraid this is the limits of what I can do. I could repeat but what you’re looking for is understanding. That takes intelligence and the capacity to accept a view that’s different than your own. You lack both because of your limited mental ability and probably short a couple of marbles. That is something that I’m unable to provide.”

For example, your comment: 'currently each individual provider can issue a 1099'

---That's reasoning? You got to be kidding!

"You think we need to treat aliens and euthanize seniors? In Canada they do not treat aliens,a nd they do not treat uninsured Canadians unless they pay cash.."

-----euthanize seniors? Is this your idea of a sick joke?

"does "for whatever cause" mean I can drom my blue cross plan and taxpayers will but my insurance for me?"

-----Is this suppose to be an intelligent comment to as serious topic?

These comments you gave represents your typical ignorance and stupidity of a teenager . Your mental capacity to understand is clearly demonstrated by your remarks.

I still do not understand why the French are able to deliver the best health care in the world at 1/2 the cost. If I my ticker had not decided to take a dive while I was visiting Paris- I would not be writing this because if it had happened back here in the United States the chances of death would have been much greater.

Why did you return to the U.S.? Aren't you afraid you might die with the terrible health care that exists here?

It's not a stretch to believe that the future health "care" in this country will consist of taxpayer-funded abortions and encouraging the chronically ill and elderly (and others) to voluntarily end their lives.

Why?

Because we have a president, a Congress, and many in the medical, scientific and public policy communities who place an economic value on human life while others believe planet earth is more important than human beings. We have wealthy foundations that provide millions of dollars to fund the destruction of human life and fund propaganda campaigns to devalue human life.

Go over to this website-http://www.lifetree.org/timeline.html- to see a timeline of how a well orchestrated campaign has been actively changing America's view on hastening death.

We have a predominent culture, reflected in the Obama administration and in Congress where morality and ethics are subjective which has led and can only lead to public policies that pit groups of people against each other, all vying for recognition and financial support from the government and laws that benefit their special interests.

Obama's selections of people to head federal government agencies are truly extreme radical feminists, environmentalists, homosexuals, pro-population controllers, and purveyors of Socialism which is both a cultural and economic ideology that places the state above the individual.

The radicals who believe in population control, abortion-on-demand, and saving the environment at the expense of humanity are in power here in the U.S. and throughout the world.

Healthcare for the elderly: What will happen to them? Is it true our president advocates a "quick-fix" plan for the elderly, and there is a plan in the works for euthenasia of the aging? If this is true, the current administration has much to answer for. Nothing is sacred.

I strongly feel that no bill should be passed unless it is completely read by all of those with the power to see that it becomes law. There are too many mistakes made because we just go along because we've been told to and not because it is the best way to go. There is too much at stake to do this health bill haphazardly. This should not be partisan - it should be for the good of the country.

I cannot decide whether the president is a liar or an idiot. Or maybe it's neither: maybe he's simply insane.

Obama is as sly as a fox.

He's an expert at Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals because he's been playing those rules in entire life.

The first rule is to infiltrate the organizations with radicals that really have the power. Patience is needed in order to incremently but forcefully and relentlessly change public opinion so it corresponds with radical thinking.

Radicals have complete control over public education, colleges and universities, most state, county and city governments, and the courts. They are the majority of the Democratic Party. Now they have one of their best students as president of the U.S. How much better can it be?

You have to infiltrate rather than oppose in order to realize your goal. That is the basic lessons learned after the 60's radicals realized their blowing up buildings and people didn't get them very far.

Yeah and it's frighteningly reminscent of how the KGB operated (or, still operates).

the president needs to read the bills he intends to sign into law if he doesn't want to lose any more credibility than he already has. he also needs to realize that tort reform goes hand in hand with healthcare reform. the physicians shouldn't pay the price for years of greed by the ceo's of the insurance companies who have been making the big money. malpractice in this country is out of control, who's monitoring that aspect of healthcare. the president needs to look at the whole picture and stop putting small bandaids on giant wounds. DON'T MAKE OUR PHYSICIANS WHO WE NEED YOUR SCAPEGOATS.

How did the the REPUBLICANS screw up sooo bad that we are here today ????
Time for a realistic THIRD PARTY I think most of America is ready to vote for ANYONE that is running that DOESN'T HAVE A "D" OR A "R" BEHIND THEIR NAME !!!!

If a catholic doctor is forced to perform ABORTION or face JAIL---are we in support of that bill??

If any doctor is forced to perform a mercy killing, or unplug from life support because it is GOVERNMENT ordered---who is responsible??? Obama ? Congress ?? Supreme Court ??

NO---IT IS YOU & ME !!! If we speak up loud enough & long enough, our government will understand that WE ARE IN CHARGE ---not the Preseident---not Congress---THEY WORK FOR US ___ They can be hired & fired as soon as the next election or sooner if need be !!!

If you still don't believe that our lying, scumbag president is a sneaky, Chicago-Mafia/KGB style grunt, two things came to light in the past few days.

First, he set up an email account asking his supporters to report to the Whitehouse any information they find that disagrees with him. Like the Gestapo, he wants neighbors snitching on their neighbors.

Secondly, according to none other than the New York Times, he made a back-door, secret deal with the pharmaceutical companies to garner their support for his takeover of our health care. Here is the proof:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy...

White House Affirms Deal on Drug Cost

By David D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: August 5, 2009
WASHINGTON — Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion.


Drug industry lobbyists reacted with alarm this week to a House health care overhaul measure that would allow the government to negotiate drug prices and demand additional rebates from drug manufacturers.

In response, the industry successfully demanded that the White House explicitly acknowledge for the first time that it had committed to protect drug makers from bearing further costs in the overhaul. The Obama administration had never spelled out the details of the agreement.

“We were assured: ‘We need somebody to come in first. If you come in first, you will have a rock-solid deal,’ ” Billy Tauzin, the former Republican House member from Louisiana who now leads the pharmaceutical trade group, said Wednesday. “Who is ever going to go into a deal with the White House again if they don’t keep their word? You are just going to duke it out instead.”

A deputy White House chief of staff, Jim Messina, confirmed Mr. Tauzin’s account of the deal in an e-mail message on Wednesday night.

“The president encouraged this approach,” Mr. Messina wrote. “He wanted to bring all the parties to the table to discuss health insurance reform.”

The new attention to the agreement could prove embarrassing to the White House, which has sought to keep lobbyists at a distance, including by refusing to hire them to work in the administration.

The White House commitment to the deal with the drug industry may also irk some of the administration’s Congressional allies who have an eye on drug companies’ profits as they search for ways to pay for the $1 trillion cost of the health legislation.

But failing to publicly confirm Mr. Tauzin’s descriptions of the deal risked alienating a powerful industry ally currently helping to bankroll millions in television commercials in favor of Mr. Obama’s reforms.

The pressure from Mr. Tauzin to affirm the deal offers a window on the secretive and potentially risky game the Obama administration has played as it tries to line up support from industry groups typically hostile to government health care initiatives, even as their lobbyists pushed to influence the health measure for their benefit.

In an interview on Wednesday, Representative Raul M. Grijalva, the Arizona Democrat who is co-chairman of the House progressive caucus, called Mr. Tauzin’s comments “disturbing.”

“We have all been focused on the debate in Congress, but perhaps the deal has already been cut,” Mr. Grijalva said. “That would put us in the untenable position of trying to scuttle it.”

He added: “It is a pivotal issue not just about health care. Are industry groups going to be the ones at the table who get the first big piece of the pie and we just fight over the crust?”

The Obama administration has hailed its agreements with health care groups as evidence of broad support for the overhaul among industry “stakeholders,” including doctors, hospitals and insurers as well as drug companies.

But as the debate has heated up over the last two weeks, Mr. Obama and Congressional Democrats have signaled that they value some of its industry enemies-turned-friends more than others. Drug makers have been elevated to a seat of honor at the negotiating table, while insurers have been pushed away.

“To their credit, the pharmaceutical companies have already agreed to put up $80 billion” in pledged cost reductions, Mr. Obama reminded his listeners at a recent town-hall-style meeting in Bristol, Va. But the health insurance companies “need to be held accountable,” he said.

“We have a system that works well for the insurance industry, but it doesn’t always work for its customers,” he added, repeating a new refrain.

Administration officials and Democratic lawmakers say the growing divergence in tone toward the two groups reflects a combination of policy priorities and political calculus.

With polls showing that public doubts about the overhaul are mounting, Democrats are pointedly reminding voters what they may not like about their existing health coverage to help convince skeptics that they have something to gain.

“You don’t need a poll to tell you that people are paying more and more out of pocket and, if they have some serious illness, more than they can afford,” said David Axelrod, Mr. Obama’s senior adviser.

The insurers, however, have also stopped short of the drug makers in their willingness to cut a firm deal. The health insurers shook hands with Mr. Obama at the White House in March over their own package of concessions, including ending the exclusion of coverage for pre-existing ailments.

But unlike the drug companies, the insurers have not pledged specific cost cuts. And insurers have also steadfastly vowed to block Mr. Obama’s proposed government-sponsored insurance plan — the biggest sticking point in the Congressional negotiations.

The drug industry trade group, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, also opposes a public insurance plan. But its lobbyists acknowledge privately that they have no intention of fighting it, in part because their agreement with the White House provides them other safeguards.

Mr. Tauzin said the administration had approached him to negotiate. “They wanted a big player to come in and set the bar for everybody else,” he said. He said the White House had directed him to negotiate with Senator Max Baucus, the business-friendly Montana Democrat who leads the Senate Finance Committee.

Mr. Tauzin said the White House had tracked the negotiations throughout, assenting to decisions to move away from ideas like the government negotiation of prices or the importation of cheaper drugs from Canada. The $80 billion in savings would be over a 10-year period. “80 billion is the max, no more or less,” he said. “Adding other stuff changes the deal.”

After reaching an agreement with Mr. Baucus, Mr. Tauzin said, he met twice at the White House with Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff; Mr. Messina, his deputy; and Nancy-Ann DeParle, the aide overseeing the health care overhaul, to confirm the administration’s support for the terms.

“They blessed the deal,” Mr. Tauzin said. Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the House was not bound by any industry deals with the Senate or the White House.

But, Mr. Tauzin said, “as far we are concerned, that is a done deal.” He said, “It’s up to the White House and Senator Baucus to follow through.”

As for the administration’s recent break with the insurance industry, Mr. Tauzin said, “The insurers never made any deal.”

Sheryl Gay Stolberg contributed reporting.

I will argue that if just a small portion of the waste and fraud in government programs and grants were eliminated, we wouldn't be in the pickle we are in.

Go over to ExpectMore.gov and learn just how many programs have not proven to be worth the tax dollars spent on them.

Or how about knowing this? While reading the remarks made in opposition to two of the appropriations bills, I found the following comments which expose some of the waste of our tax dollars.

1. There are well-documented reports of overpayments in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, which are estimated to amount to $1,200,000,000.

2. FNS report, verified by the Government Accountability Office, identifying improper payments of approximately $860,000,000 (representing 8.6 percent of the total program cost in 2006) to schools participating in the school lunch and school breakfast programs

3. There are well-documented reports of overpayments in the direct and countercyclical farm payments program. A recent USDA study identified roughly $50,000,000 in improper payments to farmers who were ineligible for these payments.

4. In 2007, the Committee requested a report on bonuses awarded to senior officials for fiscal year 2007. The Committee asked for this report because it learned that FSIS spent nearly half a million dollars on bonuses for senior FSIS officials for fiscal year 2006, when the agency nearly exhausted its budget and was forced to maintain a hiring freeze for non-frontline positions.

I will not give up my freedom to this or any government. I will die fighting for my freedom as thousands of others have done. If it is a civil war they want, then it is a civil war they will get.

your a retard

As someone making the decisions that affect all of the American People, how can you as a government official say yes or no on a bill that you have not read? There is too much hearsay going on to trust to someone else's opinion. It is not in the best interest of the American People to be asked to rush into something as vital as health care. This is something that should be decided on with a lot of serious thinking. Rushing into something as serious as this could have serious consequences. I feel the American people deserve better.

This is the most backhanded grab for power I have ever seen. It isn't enough for Obama to take over the auto industry and the insurance, but now he wants to control health care. Yes he wants to CONTROL health care. How will he fund It? Simple, take the money from Medicare. What? I thought Medicare was going broke along with social security and every other program the government trys to run. Get Government the h... out of business.

Your inability to reason precedes your inability to be an active part of society. There will be no existing money taken from Medicare, any contributions from the "GOVERNMENT" to MEDICARE will still be there annualy. Medicare is a government run program for more than 20 years. The program still has money, it will always be there.

Sometimes i have to sit back and laugh at some of these comments that are posted on these conservative sites. If many of you would take the time to pick up your remote and switch the channel from FOX news to another you would see that you are being poisoned. Sir i wish you all the best in your little bubble world and i hope that someone comes along and pops it!!

You pathetic paranoid little man

you people need to wake up. The only flaw in this plan is that it makes sense and it will take away money from the conservative lobbyists in washington who are already making 20000000000000000000 dollars a year.

I guarantee you that not one of you has really read the health care proposal bill. The least you could do is read it before you pass judgement on it.

All of you had to endure George Bush for the last 8 years. You all should be happy that we finally have a president that doesn't have his head so far up his ass (or his dads ass). All of you need to wake up. Obama is going to get us out of this mess not make it worse!!!!

Skip2489!
You sound so mean-spirited! You also seem to be a very partisam democrat. And you think we should entrust democrats with our health care??? Oh my!

By the way, the democratically-controlled congress couldn't pass it then, and it won't pass now. And why?? what's the reason.

skip2489

What does your ranting and raving about a persons reasoning abilities and right to be part of society have to do with anything? Future Medicare monies will be used for Obamacare. Of course none of the current moneys are being used, Obamacare isn't a fact yet. Medicare, Social Security The stimulation plan, Cash for cliunkers, Freddy Max, Fanny Mae and many other GOVERNMENT run programs are either broke or in trouble financially.

I hope you can hold on th your little laugh. If this bill passes you are going to need it to keep from crying. Now see if you can't possibily reply with some civility. I am sure most of your democratic friends would rather not be associated with someone that can only rant.

I am against any healthcare that funds abortions with tax payer money.I'm also against any bill that takes away from home healthcare which would force many into nursing homes against their will.it is a shame that a man or women works for 30 or more years and are going to lose everything they worked for

Here is just one more reason Democrats should not be trusted with any health care reform.

From TheRealityCheck.org on September 15:

In a section innocuously titled "School-Based Health Clinics," the House
bill, H.R. 3200, seems to set up Democrats to invite groups like Planned
Parenthood into our schools to serve as a school "health clinic." ('Sec.
399Z-1. School-Based Health Clinics.)

And even more insidiously the bill provides for these "clinics" to be
initiated immediately - effective date to be July 1, 2010 - whereas much of
the rest of H.R. 3200 does not take effect until 2013. Why the rush? If one
were cynical, one might think that the fast tracking of these "clinics" was
meant to catch critics off guard. After all, if these "clinics" are slipped
into our schools before anyone is aware of them, it will be harder to get
them out or to protest the whole deal beforehand.

Here is how Sec. 399Z-1 begins:

'(a) Program- The Secretary shall establish a school-based health clinic
program consisting of awarding grants to eligible entities to support the
operation of school-based health clinics (referred to in this section as
'SBHCs').

And what sort of group is "eligible" to serve as an in-school clinic? Why
any group that the Secretary of Health and Human Services decides will
qualify, of course. All they have to do is "submit an application at such
time, in such manner, and containing such information as the Secretary may
require."

Even more eyebrow raising is the fact that this bill requires these clinics
to "establish a network" to offer services after school is closed, too.

'(iii) the SBHC will provide on-site access during the academic day when
school is in session and has an established network of support and access to
services with backup health providers when the school or SBHC is closed;

Apparently these clinics will assume there are no parents or families
responsible for kid's healthcare services. Who needs parents? We have
Obamacare and his in-school clinics to take care of kids in AND out of
schools.

And, as is the case throughout this bill, all determinations as to what
should or must be done is left to "the Secretary," meaning that all
determinations rest as a matter of law with the Secretary of Health and
Human Services and, therefore, the White House. No local involvement, no
teachers, school boards or parents need bother trying to affect these
requirements and arrangements.

A naked power grab is the end result.

Now, remembering that the White House and its administration is the ruling
authority, in this political climate we must realize that groups like
Planned Parenthood will certainly be considered a qualifying agency worthy
of being placed in our schools.

Does anyone doubt that Kathleen Sebelius and President Obama could be
expected to be favored with a contract for being an in-school healthcare
service? Certainly they would.

Once again we see a very controversial proposal slipped into this bill in
hopes that the massive size of this thing will be so overwhelming that
people simply cannot possibly catch every one of them.

We also see a big payback to Obama supporters that would otherwise not have
enough legitimacy to gain access to our children otherwise.

But let's take another step back here. I am against abortion and despise
Planned Parenthood. But say you are a lefty and love both. Then imagine that
a solidly anti-abortion president takes office and his Secretary decides to
de-certify your beloved baby killing agencies and they put in abstinence
only or religiously based "clinics." Would you be happy about it? Of course
you wouldn't.

The only real solution is not to have government mandating these sorts of
things in the first place, right, center, or left!

What Crap. I live in Canada, have government healthcare AND my work sponsored health plan, BECAUSE THEY DO DIFFERENT THINGS. Take the RED Pill for gods sake. Look, we went through all these lies and the paranioa years ago as well. The only people who MAYBE will not benifit are the companies gouging everyone right now. And they are. AS far as I can tell from watching all this nonsense from up here is that Americans dont give a crap about other americans who cant afford real health care. Its all about themselves isnt it. You've a lot to learn cause you've come a short way baby.

We just want a choice of our own healthcare, not a government bureaurcrat telling us which doctor to see or whether we should get an operation or specific medical care. We DO care about other Americans -- LEGAL American citizens -- and if they need care they get it through Medicare, Medicaid and other government or charity programs. Yes, a few fall through the cracks, but as it stands right now it doesn't look like Congress is going to make it any better and they won't be a part of the program so why should I believe that the new government healthcare program is going to be so great if the very people who are passing the laws won't be a part of it? If Canada's healthcare system is so great, why do so many Canadians come to the U.S. for their healthcare? And what will they do when the U.S. doesn't have anything other than the government program? Yes, the insurance and pharmacutical companies are gouging us and that is where it should be fixed. If ALL American citizes could be given an affordable healthcare program by insurance competition across state lines and stop the crazy lawsuits, it would fix a major portion of our problems.

I'm fifty,a single mom and unemployed with hardly enought money to pay my bills no saying health insurance. I don't have any insurance at the moment, and probably won't be able to afford it until I get a job sometime after I graduate with my accounting degree. I understand the president wants to make people pay a fine, if they don't have or get health insurance. In my schooling, I've had to do some reseach papers I've become aware that the government is behind MSG. Which is very dangerous and is contributing to our health problems and it has been this way for the last fifty years or so. MSG side effects match at least 4 out of our nations top 10 health problems. Yet whats the government doing about that? Maybe, the government needs to get MSG out of our foods, before they start putting people into jail because they can't afford to pay for either insurance or the fine. The government has contributed to the health problem with passing the "Hamburger Bill." Creating a bill that would protect companies from being sued for using MSG in their products that had been proven to cause many health problems. In case you didn't know MSG is also used in other products than food. toothpaste,.. Yep, MSG can also be found in most pharmacy pill products including vitamins. (See the connection?) You try to be healthy and their killing ya.

belindarandall: You have to consider the fact the government picks and chooses what it believes to be healthy.

The government encourages, promotes and rewards any and all kinds of sexual activity even though common sense and evidence proves promiscuity (having one or more sexual partners) and sodomy not only are unhealthy practices but cost the whole of society financially (paying higher premiums and health care costs to fund the sexually-transmitted diseases, contraceptives, and abortions related to them) as well as socially (unbridled sex leads to the breakdown of marriage, the family, and hurts children).

But wait until "universal" health care is implemented. If the government bureaucrats who will be the decision makers on everything regarding to your health decides a test, procedure, operation, or drug is not "cost effective", i.e., it costs taxpayers too much according to the government bureaucrats, you will not be able to get that test, procedure, operation or drug. Plain and simple. The government will now be the sole arbitrator of whether or not your life is a worthy life or you cost too much to be alive and should therefore, die.

Does anyone else realize how conflicting some of the defending arguments for ObamaCare are?

Ignoring the many unintelligent arguments that have been made...

-Insults of various sorts (such low attacks against another person are never the best way to respond to any argument)
-Blind obama-praising (It's obama's plan! It must be good!)
-Bush-bashing (I'm ashamed that his name is even brought up in here; We're debating OBAMA's healthcare program!!! That has nothing to do with the mistakes Bush may, or may not, have made! We do not need to argue that we are facing some serious problems right now, we are debating a solution, not the cause!).

...The arguments of the people who have an idea of what they are talking about disagree with eachother! They (along with the rest of us) hardly have a clue what ObamaCare is, and how the government might do with it! They don't have a clue what they're defending!

I don't blame this on the people who agree with or have here defended ObamaCare (There are very valud arguments I have heard for the plan, from very intelligent people), it does lead me to question the intent of such a program. If you have no reason to hide something, you would write a document in a way it is easy to understand!

While the defense for such a plan conflicts with eachother because the plan is not yet fully understood by much anyone, the only argument the opponents of this plan have to keep at is just that: "WE DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON!". I, for one, do not feel comfortable signing my name to a document not yet written, or to one with blanket statements I would then be legally held to... How would agreeing to something you don't understand be any different?!?!

The only clues that we peons have about what is actually in the various health care destruction bills introduced by the Democrats are the ones we garner from reading them. And the unadulterated fact that they are intent on implementing complete government control over every aspect of health care. That is who they are. Despots who will suck the life out of all of us.

Want proof? Review what Obama and his pals have already accomplished:

1. A $787 trillion dollar non-stimulus package that created government jobs and put us into debt to the Chinese which we, our children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and on will never repay.

Now reports are out that some of these trillions have been directed to non-existant congressional districts.

2. Takeover of two auto companies.

3. Takeover of the financial industry.

4. Plans and success in confiscating more land to make it off-limits to humans.

5. How many unelected "czars" beholden to Obama only who have been given the power to make policy? 30? 35? I stopped counting.

6. Deciding to try Islamic jihad terrorists in New York City.

7. Forcing federal taxpayer funding of abortion and population control in other countries (soon to come here as well if any of their health destruction plans are implemented.

9. How many trillions in their TARP program?

10. Calling people who oppose their plans for a dictatorship "astroturfers", "liars", and worse.

Their future plans are worse. If terrorists don't kill us, Obama and the Democratic Party will.

It is about damn time that somebody tries to pry this world out of the selfish hands of the rich old white people. You all must really belive in social darwinism. You all must really believe that socialim is the great Satan. Oh god forbid those poor blacks from having as much rights to health insurance as I do! Do you really think that after so many centuries of white supremecy all of the sudden you rich old white fucks are going to get the plug pulled on you because a black democrat is president? Do you really think your white privilege will abandon you that quickly? Oh, dont tax the wealthy, they make jobs and money rain down on everyone else. BULSHIT. Give up some of your privilege. It would be about the best Christmas present you could give.

Oh yeah, and the way you white old crackers hate giving up anything for the enviornment is a bunch of evil bullshit also. You will be the reason why our kids world will be a toxic dump.

Ha ha ha ha. You think any humans are going to exist when the insane environmentalists that control the wealth of the world have their way?

No, the only world that will exist is a world of plants. No humans.

hell yeah....plants are great for life they produce oxygen which is totally awesome for life. life is sacred. Even you money bags should know that. Humans depend on plants dickweed go take a biology . Also, what do you think youre moneey will bring in the future..? hmmm??? love and happiness? give me forests or give me death I say...

oh yeah..and your dumb fuck for thinking that environmentalists could be in power instead of the rupert murdochs of the world....and if we were there wouldnt be a thing 'wealth' because we know that wealth implies a system of domination which destroys the spirit and nature....

Wow Sara. Do you know your racist talk would get you arrested in Canada for a hate crime?

I guess you are completely ignorant of history because everywhere socialism has been tried or exists has failed. The elitist's are rich and the populace live in abject poverty. Take a trip to Cuba or Venezuala to open your blind eyes.

The poor blacks you seem so interested in are poor because you liberals have convinced them they are too stupid to make something of themselves, that they are the victims of whitey, and only the Democrats and big government can make their lives worthwhile.

And what do the bleeding-heart Democrats to do blacks? Set up abortion clinics in their neighborhoods so 50% of their children are murdered. Keep their "you are the victims of capitialistic rich white folk" mentality alive so their families are devastated by illegitimacy; children (those allowed to be born) have no father. Total dependency on the government for their lives. No hope for a future they control but completely controlled by government handouts.

Wake up you silly girl. Stop being a racist and think about what complete government takeover of this country will mean. If you think because you are a liberal you will be spared the death sentence, read about what Stalin did, what all Socialist/Communist dictators do to the very people who supported them.

Oh yeah. And by your mentioning the word "Christmas" you might be sued by the ACLU. Be careful what politically incorrect words you use.

...look up sara baartman on the internet and get schooled on some history.....I wont even talk about socialism because youre mostly right about the politics (misguided about the ideaology) the capitalist system which you love so much (and which provides you with the privilege to say the bullshit you say as a white person which you probably are) is an extension of imperalism which enslaved entire nations and enforced the globalized behmoth which is 'civilization' The reason why we have such high standards of living in this country is completely dependent on the very low standards of living in other countries...there is an equal form of oppression for every privilege your pasty ass takes...you may not see this and but it makes total economic sense, nespa? So instead of trying to defend your ignorance by calling my anger ignorance why dont you go fuck yourself

oh yeah...and Im no racist I merely have acknowledged my white privilige and the fact that white supremecy has been institutionalized since this countries inception. Do you honestly think that everythings hunky dorey now that the civil rights movement is over and we are 'oppressed' by this politically correct termenology? Its a simple safegaurd against SOME of the white supremecy enacted in everyday social situations. Paradoxically, whites like us may only become anti-racist when we acknowledge that racism exists at an institutional level. Because you see my words as a threat to your politically correct and safe whiteness you dismiss it as anger and racism against whites. Your probably making all sorts of assumptions about who I am right now just as I am to you..Let me have you know if I were to stand up in a crowded square and start cursing and hollering bloody murder, spweing my liberal bullcrap and I were black...the majority of the people there would attribute my behavior to my race. If I were white and I did that...they would make up some shit that I am a socialist or crazy or something they are not but not because Im white...racism

oh and I forgot....why do you think that this country will become anything like stalin russia??!! Do you equate obama to stalin? I suppose I dont give enough credit to America for its amnesia..we would just as readily forget the mistakes of socialist russia as we forgot the mistakes of vietnam before going to Iraq... Medicare is already controlled by the government, right? So much is controlled by the government you hardly have to do anything but go to your stupid ass job make money and support the status quo...the government is controlled by the big corporations and you are controlled by money...wake up... there has already been a take over only the people who benefit from the system which has taken over (such as yourself) dont see it as a take over.

The only selfish hands of rich old white people belong to Democratic politicians. Look up their personal contributions to charities that actually work to help people and you find very little.

Of course these rich old white Domocrats got rich by either inheriting it, i.e., doing absolutely nothing worthwhile or their families were crooks (Ted Kennedy comes to mind) or by using that nasty capitalist system where one is allowed to purchase stocks, bonds, and real estate.

Nancy Pelosi, dear little old white rich lady, is rich mainly because she owns property. However, she and all Democrats, don't want us little peons to own property or anything else.

Wake up little dreamer. Socialism means certain people gain power and wealth through confiscation or murder and they are few in number while the majority live in poverty, grateful to get a bread crumb thrown from the palaces of the rich, old white Socialists.

socialim only means that if there are players involved who gain leverage and are greedy fuckers....of course socialism wouldnt work in this country because its full of greedy fuckers....little dreamer? you honestly believe that your subjective reality is superior to mine? One could just as easily point out that the majority of republican politicians are supported by big oil big food big this big that....hell, look at nixon... look at bush Jr....I personally believe the bipartisanship of this country is corrosive and evil because it pits folks like us against each other more so than necessary. Sure differences exist but progressions cant be made if we define ourselves by doing the opposite of some arbitrary 'other' group. WAKE UP YOU FUCK...All politicians are the same...all people are related...we are animals...we are made of the same stuff as the sun which warms the earth...power is such a transitory thing you peon

This quote sums things up nicely.

"The USA has descended from its special position as the principled guardian of Western civilization and joined the club of sentimentalists who have until now depended on American power. In the administration of President Obama we see the very same totalitarian sentimentality that has been at work in Europe, and which has replaced civil society with the state, the family with the adoption agency, work with welfare, and patriotic duty with universal 'rights.' The lesson of postwar Europe is that it is easy to flaunt compassion, but harder to bear the cost of it. Far preferable to the hard life in which disciplined teaching, costly charity, and responsible attachment are the ruling principles is the life of sentimental display, in which others are encouraged to admire you for virtues you do not possess. This life of phony compassion is a life of transferred costs. Liberals who wax lyrical on the sufferings of the poor do not, on the whole, give their time and money to helping those less fortunate than themselves. On the contrary, they campaign for the state to assume the burden. The inevitable result of their sentimental approach to suffering is the expansion of the state and the increase in its power both to tax us and to control our lives. As the state takes charge of our needs, and relieves people of the burdens that should rightly be theirs -- the burdens that come from charity and neighborliness -- serious feeling retreats. In place of it comes an aggressive sentimentality that seeks to dominate the public square. I call this sentimentality 'totalitarian' since -- like totalitarian government -- it seeks out opposition and carefully extinguishes it, in all the places where opposition might form. Its goal is to 'solve' our social problems, by imposing burdens on responsible citizens, and lifting burdens from the 'victims,' who have a 'right' to state support. The result is to replace old social problems, which might have been relieved by private charity, with the new and intransigent problems fostered by the state...." --columnist Roger Scruton

Wow, thanks Elaine, this totally proves my point and cements you and this dickwad as propoganda machines of the patriarchal white supremecy which has manifested itself as the mythos that the US is the current 'guardian of western civilization'. None of the 'suffering' or 'sentementality' (which I dont really understand in this context, forgive me) would have existed if it werent for the way western civilization operates to begin with. Hes right that it shouldnt be the interest of western civilization to be compassionate because it costs too much. Hes right that it shouldnt be in the interest of the US for equal rights because it would replace the 'patriotic duty' which quite blatantly means it would replace patriarchy. Take hold of your power as a woman, Elaine, fight for YOUR rights. Dont you see our sisters take the shit end of the stick in everyday life? Whjy do you think that happens? Because we have it in our heads that its normal and natural for men to have those certain social one-ups. If you dont see this you should really take a women's studies course or something...it could change your life or at least give you ammo to continue being a dickwads puppet

Sara, are you a resident of any of your hated western civilization countries? If you are, why? Why not transfer your residency to one of the Socialist/Communist utopia's you seem to be so infatuated with?

You know those bastions of freedom where "women's studies courses" are nonexistent and the only "education" you receive is how much you must slave away for the state and how little your life is worth.

My "power as a woman" is to honor my human nature and dignity which God gave me and the state cannot change or take away.

It is a real pity that you are so brainwashed and indoctrinated into such hateful, useless and destruction thinking.

The "shit end of the stick" you believe women receive daily is complete nonsense if you are referring to women living in your hated western civilization countries. Grow up. Educate yourself instead of parroting your Socialist/Communist college professors who willingly accept the nasty capitalistic wealth and privileges they rant against.

I would if such a place existed (although I love my country -USA- for many many reasons which do not include you). It doesnt exist because even the countries you think of as 'socialist/communist' are actually tainted by the system which Im referring to. Could you open up your mind just a little enouugh to see Im not reffering to some philosophical tennant? Its something bigger. Its killing us (but you probably wouldnt believe it and just as soon call me brainwashed) And I dont know where it started but on an everyday basis women are raped, black people die becasue their ghettos are next to toxic waste dumping sites and brainwashed sheep like you blow up abortion clinics and cut down too many trees and start unecessary wars because theres this system that their pappys made up thats like that and theyll fight to keep it.You mention Christian things but you and your ilk act like ceasar with your money and your power and your 'rights' which are really privileges because they allow you to take blindly not knowing from where...be as the lilys in the field Elaine. Shouldnt God provide for you too or is it the free market? Parroting my professors eh? Hateful useless thinking eh? I'm not hateful, Im angry because whats really destructive is how people like you think that its a right to live life running around working to death jobs you dont like to go home to a troubled nuclear family eat mcnasty and pray to god it gets better all the while you destroy the world and all the while you say that slavery never happened and blame your problems on the other party. Democrats suck too. Not as much as you though! What you mean by growing up is submitting. And while I may be your little socialist demon...guess what.. obama's healthcare plan is hardly socialist. and you cant tell me thats not true cause youve already implied that I am a socialist.

your complaints about obama's plan is that it would bring more powers to washington. You must be brainwashed to believe that to be anything like socialism. If it were socialist, the people would autonomously and directly deal with matters such as health care THEMSELVES. You should not tell me to go educate myself (even when you imlpy that I have professors. I guess we can both agree that the education system doesnt work :) when you are making all these claims that you presupposed your whole life when you were hiding under tables because of the red's bomb. Russia was a terrible socialist state. Totlitarianism under the guise of communism. Just as china is now capitalism under the guise of communism and (i believe) America is capitalist oligarchy under the guise of a democracy. You should go check out the health care in venezuela...not too shabby. oh, yeah...and my ideas are only useless if they dont cause you to think. I wont call your ideas useless because they made me think. but then they made me angry....